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tulsad
 Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:44 am |
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Addiction - Has it Touched Your Life?
This is a pretty heavy topic, but where better to discuss addiction than the safe and friendly Pub? There was some discussion of the topic on the "Lilo - Busted Again" thread; FGL suggested moving it to its own because it was growing. I agree!
My belief is that many of the folks around here have probably been touched, in one way or another - to one degree or another - by the effects of addiction. Drugs, including alcohol; gambling; sex; the internet  - anything that people can do or ingest is fair game for addiction. If you're interested in discussing this, please do!!
Any thoughts on approaches to dealing with the problem? Personal experiences (your own or those you know of) that you'd like to share? Who knows? Maybe there is someone struggling with the nightmare of addiction right now; s/he just might find some help here in The Refugee's Pub.
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:16 am |
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Well yeah. for sure. I have been addicted to biking at one point, then I went through a snow phase. Then came melted snow. Then I came upon a total cooking phase where I thought I would die if I missed an episode of Hell's Kitchen or a vintage Betty Crocker Cook Book at a garage sale.
What we were talking about was THIS tulsad-
| Quote: | Step One: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.
"When they tell you that you are powerless, that just means that someone else gets the power."
-- Remark of a cynic.
The A.A. First Step, where people are supposed to "admit" that they are "powerless over alcohol", is a hoax.
People are not "powerless" over their desires to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or take drugs. Being sick, and having a messed-up life from too much drinking, is just that -- being sick. It isn't "powerlessness." Having difficulties quitting is not "powerlessness", it's having difficulties quitting. Saying that your drinking has really gotten out of control doesn't mean that you are powerless over it.
Quitting can be hard, extremely difficult and painful, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible, or that you can't do it. Remember: When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
The "powerless" doctrine of Alcoholics Anonymous is one of their most central religious beliefs. It is one of those points where A.A. radically departs from Christianity or any other mainstream religion of the world, and enters the bizarre realm of cult religion. A.A. teaches that people are incapable of running their own lives and must surrender control of their lives to the A.A. group and a "Higher Power" who will control them, and do the quitting for them. Thus the real purpose of Step One is to prepare the new members for Steps Two and Three, where they will confess that they are insane, and then surrender their wills and their lives to "the care of God" and the Alcoholics Anonymous group.
One of the biggest problems with the Twelve-Step program is the learned helplessness caused by the First Step, where people are taught to confess that they are "powerless over alcohol." This leads many people to believe that once they have a drink, that a full-blown relapse and total loss of self-control is inevitable and unavoidable.4
The other half of Step One, which says that "our lives had become unmanageable", leads some people to believe that they shouldn't even try to manage their lives. Step Two is just as bad: it teaches people that they are insane, and that only a Supernatural Being can restore them to sanity -- which means that they are helpless, and cannot heal themselves. Then Step Three teaches a lifestyle of passive dependency, where A.A. members turn control of their wills and their lives over to "the care of God as we understood Him", and they expect God to run their lives and solve all their problems for them from then on... |
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:23 am |
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Bill Wilson routinely tried to cite the "powerless" idea and the disease theory of alcoholism to explain away his previous poor behavior. The official A.A. history book, "PASS IT ON", tells how Bill Wilson happily discovered that the disease theory of alcoholism relieved him of his feelings of guilt -- it wasn't really his fault after all, because he was powerless over alcoholism:
Bill listened, entranced, as Silkworth explained his theory. For the first time in his life, Bill was hearing about alcoholism not as a lack of willpower, not as a moral defect, but as a legitimate illness. It was Dr. Silkworth's theory -- unique at the time -- that alcoholism was the combination of this mysterious pysical "allergy" and the compulsion to drink; that alcoholism could no more be "defeated" by willpower than could tuberculosis. Bill's relief was immense.
'PASS IT ON': The story of Bill Wilson and how the A.A. message reached the world, Authorship credited to 'anonymous', actually written by A.A.W.S. staff, page 102.
By the way, that story is apocryphal, just another one of Bill's gross exaggerations. The idea that alcoholism was a disease was already commonplace and popular, and had been for more than a century. Dr. Benjamin Rush advanced the idea of alcoholism as a disease in 1784. The Salvation Army had been teaching that alcoholism was a disease since 1890. The Oxford Group taught the same thing in the nineteen-twenties and -thirties, and Bill Wilson was a member of the Oxford Group.
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***Deactivated: Pending Review***
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:27 am |
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Bill WILLlessson
Bill Wilson declared that he was "powerless" over just about every urge or craving that he ever had, no matter whether it was a thirst for alcohol, cravings for cigarettes, greed for money, the desire for self-aggrandizement, the temptation to lie, or the urge to cheat on his wife Lois by having sex with all of the pretty young women who came to the A.A. meetings seeking help. That's an interesting excuse for cheating on your wife, one of the more novel ones, but it doesn't wash.3
Bill Wilson was habitually unfaithful to the wife who was working to support him, both before and after sobriety. He invented the A.A. tradition of "thirteenth stepping" the attractive young women who came to A.A. looking for help. Bill was such an outrageous philanderer that the other elder A.A. members had to form a "Founder's Watch Committee", whose job it was to follow Bill Wilson around, and watch him, and break up budding sexual relationships with the pretty young things before he publicly embarrassed A.A. yet again.3 When other early A.A. members, like Tom Powers, who helped Bill to write his second book, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, told Bill Wilson to quit the philandering, Bill whined that he couldn't give it up.
So just how was Bill's behavior an example of a life "lived on a spiritual basis"? Besides the fact that he held séances and played with Ouija boards, and constantly hypocritically yammered words like "God", "working selflessly", and "absolute purity", just what was "spiritual" about William G. Wilson?
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-powerless.html
see link for sources
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***Deactivated: Pending Review***
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| tulsad
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:13 am |
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Ok, Fugee; you win the AA battle - I didn't know any of the shit. When I cited it, I was talking about Lindsey Lohan needing to do something - anything - before she kills herself. As I mentioned on that thread, I've known some people who have found success in that program. I am not, however, necessarily an advocate for AA - I've never been a member so I don't know enough about it to be an advocate. But! I still say - if it works, you're better off than dead.
Regarding your cooking addiction - I understand that Wolfgang Puck has put together a 45-Recipe program that will air on Spike this fall - guaranteed to kill your urge to cook. 
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Fashionista
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:07 pm |
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"Heavy Topics" belong in the Difficult Topics ~ Moderated Forums.
"Heavy Topics" about "addiction/alcohol" do not belong in the "PUB" of all places, LOL
I will give it a day or so and then I will move it...
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Homeland Security - Refugee Staff
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: REFSTAGON
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| tulsad
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:23 pm |
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| Fashionista wrote: |
"Heavy Topics" belong in the Difficult Topics ~ Moderated Forums.
"Heavy Topics" about "addiction/alcohol" do not belong in the "PUB" of all places, LOL
I will give it a day or so and then I will move it... |
You can delete it if you'd like; it was mainly Fugee and me, I guess - we pretty much finished with what we were discussing.
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Katie
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:48 pm |
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| tulsad wrote: | | Fashionista wrote: |
"Heavy Topics" belong in the Difficult Topics ~ Moderated Forums.
"Heavy Topics" about "addiction/alcohol" do not belong in the "PUB" of all places, LOL
I will give it a day or so and then I will move it... |
You can delete it if you'd like; it was mainly Fugee and me, I guess - we pretty much finished with what we were discussing. |
Oh no, I have a lot to say about that.
I'm actually on vacation now, but had to drive up for my son.
AA is a crock,but it does supposedly help people .
They are what you call a dry drunk
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| wvgirl
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:13 pm |
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I also have some exposure to AA. Working at the only place in the county that offers both substance abuse counseling and dui classes so those who've lost their license, can get them back. I've not seen any success stories that I can contribute to AA, although I do believe participation has helped some. It's not a cure all.
I have personal experience w/dealing with addiction, but agree that it should be moved to difficult topics.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 3629
Location: Almost Heaven
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| dugo
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:23 pm |
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Has it Touched Your Life??? Hell yes! I get addicted to fucking everything!
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Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Location: L4L
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| tulsad
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:37 pm |
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delete
Last edited by tulsad on Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Fashionista
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:25 pm |
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Just a reminder "Difficult Topics" is a "Moderated Forum".
As with all moderated forums, there are certain rules that must be respected.
By entering our moderated forums community, you agree not to do and/or engage in any of the following actions:
° Name calling, personal attacks or insulting groups of people, derailing, trolling, baiting, posting private messages and excessive use of profanity.
The Refugee Forum Staff asks that you do not make posts on this message board that contain content that you are not willing to take personal responsibility for.
Above are some, though not all, violations that will not be tolerated and may result in RU terminating your moderated forums privileges.
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Homeland Security - Refugee Staff
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: REFSTAGON
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:42 pm |
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| wvgirl wrote: | I also have some exposure to AA. Working at the only place in the county that offers both substance abuse counseling and dui classes so those who've lost their license, can get them back. I've not seen any success stories that I can contribute to AA, although I do believe participation has helped some. It's not a cure all.
I have personal experience w/dealing with addiction, but agree that it should be moved to difficult topics. |
It is a profit making venture. That is it. The PDs work "deals" with these money vacuuming "programs" based on AA and the The Big Book
Check it out-
http://abookman.com/Big%20Book.htm
That shit sold for
$17,900.
One of only 4,730 copies, this is an original 1st edition, 1st printing of the Big Book.
Near Fine.
| Quote: | | No writtings, tight and very clean. The dj's major defect is the triangular piece missing on lower righthand side (there is a reproduction dust cover beneath the original and any defects to the original can be determined by the color shade difference between the two covers with the reproduction dust cover showing clean white and bright colors such as where triangular piece is missing). |
I don't think it is the orig. dj and it is price clipped.
Last edited by Fu-Gee-La on Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:25 am; edited 2 times in total
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:21 am |
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If you go to that site I posted, you will find just a life time of work in reaserch. It really is amazing. I found something I hadn't seen before-
"This is President Abraham Lincoln, speaking to John M. Thayer, a brigadier from General Ulysses S. Grant's army, about the complaints about General Grant's drinking:"
| Quote: |
"Delegation after delegation has called on me with the same request, 'Recall Grant from command,' as the members of the delegations were not willing that their sons and brothers should be under the control of an intemperate leader. I could not think of relieving him, and these demands became very vexatious. I therefore hit upon this plan to stop them.
"One day a delegation headed by a distinguished doctor of divinity from New York, called on me and made the familiar complaint and protest against Grant being retained in his command. After the clergyman had concluded his remarks, I asked if any others desired to add anything to what had already been said. They replied that they did not. Then looking as serious as I could, I said:
"'Doctor, can you tell me where General Grant gets his liquor?'"
"'The doctor seemed quite nonplussed, but replied that he could not. I then said to him:
"'I am very sorry, for if you could tell me I would direct the Chief Quartermaster of the army to lay in a large stock of the same kind of liquor, and would also direct him to furnish a supply to some of my other generals who have never yet won a victory.'"
Lincoln handed Thayer a friendly slap on the leg, lay back in his chair, had a laugh, and resumed:
"What I want and what the people want is Generals who will fight battles and win victories. Grant has done this and I propose to stand by him. I permitted this incident to get into print, and I have been troubled no more with delegations protesting against Grant. Somehow or other I have always felt a leaning toward Grant. Ever since he sent that message to Buckner, 'No terms but unconditional surrender,' I have felt that he was a man I could tie to, though I have never seen him."
The secretaries, Nicolay and Hay, noted that when overzealous people had accused Grant of intemperance, Lincoln's reply was, "If I knew what brand of whiskey he drinks I would send a barrel or so to some other generals."
Abraham Lincoln, The War Years, Carl Sandburg, Volume II, pages 119-120. |
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-us_stupid_drunks.html
Last edited by Fu-Gee-La on Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:42 am |
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| tulsad wrote: | Ok, Fugee; you win the AA battle - I didn't know any of the shit. When I cited it, I was talking about Lindsey Lohan needing to do something - anything - before she kills herself. As I mentioned on that thread, I've known some people who have found success in that program. I am not, however, necessarily an advocate for AA - I've never been a member so I don't know enough about it to be an advocate. But! I still say - if it works, you're better off than dead.
Regarding your cooking addiction - I understand that Wolfgang Puck has put together a 45-Recipe program that will air on Spike this fall - guaranteed to kill your urge to cook. |
Now see, this is the part I told myself as well. THEN I read more- It is actually HARMFUL. I smell a biiig fat lawsuit one of these days, that is for certain...
#1 It doesn't work.
#2 It's a Big Lie.
#3 It is bad religion.
#4 It features bad psychology and bad medicine.
#5 The cult-like atmosphere drives away moderate help seekers.
#6 It is harmful to converts.
#7 A.A. is harmful to drop-outs.
#8 A.A. encourages people to be illogical, superstitious, and irrational.
#9 Alcoholics Anonymous is anti-intellectual and encourages people to be stupid.
#10 A.A. plays Blame-The-Victim with alcoholics.
#11 Alcoholics Anonymous stereotypes alcoholics.
#12 It totally ignores all social issues.
#13 It is a headstrong organization that does whatever it can to block research and progress in the treatment of alcoholism.
14 # A.A. illegally and immorally coerces people into joining the A.A. religion.
#15 Alcoholics Anonymous is dishonest.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-not_good.html
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:53 am |
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| Fashionista wrote: |
"Heavy Topics" belong in the Difficult Topics ~ Moderated Forums.
"Heavy Topics" about "addiction/alcohol" do not belong in the "PUB" of all places, LOL
I will give it a day or so and then I will move it... |
Ty fash, I figured the topic was going OT- this is serious shit. This is definitely the place for it IMO-
Could you please leave a link? I would go back and post a link to this thread, but I don't want to seem like I am acting like a mod. I had to search to find this place, but checked Difficult Topics b/c it seemed appropriate- otherwise, wouldn't have known.  I would like to discuss this with moderation. It is definitely a touchy subject, and I don't mean to squash toes here. AA makes A LOT of people think that they are powerless and it was AA that "quit"- when IMO- it was the power of the person.
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:17 am |
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| tulsad wrote: | | dugo wrote: | | Has it Touched Your Life??? Hell yes! I get addicted to fucking everything! |
Don't worry, Dugo; you've come to the right place - old Tulsa'd's here to help.  We'll have a few drinks - I hear 151 is dynamite! - smoke a few doobies; maybe a few hands of poker would be to your liking? So, ah, Dugo...do you own your home? How about stocks and bonds; have many? Cash on hand? How quickly can you liquidate everything? |
tulsad,
do you go around washing your hands 40 times a day, carry travel size hand sanitizers, all the while spending forutunes on Lysol wipes, feather dusters, mops, foofy aprons and cleaning supplies? If so, THAT would be an addiction. JOKE. kinda. maybe?
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| CherokeeKid
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:27 am |
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I don't know anything about AA but the son of a friend was once an alcohol and drug addict. The AA meetings helped him to get rid of the addiction and he is sober now for many years. He celebrates two birthdays per year: his regular one and the day when he had won the battle against the addiction. He had met his wife at one of those AA meetings and they supported each other. Both continue to go to AA meeting to help others. He said that is very important for him to continue to stay sober. They never mentioned God or any religion.
And recently, I met two guys, two handymen when we wanted to have the outside of our home painted. While one of them came to give an estimate, we started talking, he was very open and told me that he and his partner are former alcohol/drug addicts. It was very interesting listening to his story, he was like glowing from the inside, very passionate and he told me, he won his battle against alcohol and drugs when he met God. He was a thief, a liar, a cheat and at the lowest point in his life, close putting a bullet into his head. He looked a little bit like Roy Horn.
He said I might be scared of his partner as he is a biker with long hair, a big beard and also a former alcoholic/drug addict. And his life got turned around through God as well. During the week, he remodel homes but on weekends, he is a priest. When I met him, I thought he was a hunk: he looked like Sam Elliot. He had beautiful eyes, very calm, but intense eyes. And a calm and low voice. He was very open as well. And we had some interesting conversations while he was working here.
I don't know if they had to do anything with AA. But for both of them, God was the main reason they were able to manage their lifes. Both seemed very happy, relaxed and at peace. It was a pleasure meeting them. And their crew. Who were also former alcohol or drug addicts. They did not only talk but actually do: when we had all this rain a few months ago and flooding, they took one of their crew members in when his home got destroit, let him live with his family until they were able to help him rebuild his home.
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| tulsad
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:42 am |
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delete
Last edited by tulsad on Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| dugo
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:05 am |
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| tulsad wrote: | | dugo wrote: | | Has it Touched Your Life??? xxxx yes! I get addicted to fxxxing everything! |
Don't worry, Dugo; you've come to the right place - old Tulsa'd's here to help. We'll have a few drinks - I hear 151 is dynamite! - smoke a few doobies; maybe a few hands of poker would be to your liking? So, ah, Dugo...do you own your home? How about stocks and bonds; have many? Cash on hand? How quickly can you liquidate everything? |
Due to my job owning stocks and bonds is too much of a hassle, compliance codes about insider trading and all that. Long live savings accounts. By next business day I can have everything in my wallet (might need to buy a bigger one though..) .. but .. eh .. where are you going with this?
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Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Location: L4L
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:07 am |
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I am not a proponent of AA per say, but if you are going to beat any addiction you must first admit you need help and you must be willing to make the PERMANENT changes to your life, habits and life style to be successful - call that anything you want. The very first thing is to not continue the same behaviors that got you into that addiction in the first place. Only those who truly want to change and get the support they need will do it and be successful at it long term. Support groups where you can be honest and feel those listening can relate AND give and offer support DOES WORK. A true addict normally cannot do it alone; they need help and that help comes in many forms. The first things though is you can't drink or do drugs  or place yourself in situations or be around people who are doing that.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:15 pm |
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| CherokeeKid wrote: | I don't know anything about AA but the son of a friend was once an alcohol and drug addict. The AA meetings helped him to get rid of the addiction and he is sober now for many years. He celebrates two birthdays per year: his regular one and the day when he had won the battle against the addiction. He had met his wife at one of those AA meetings and they supported each other. Both continue to go to AA meeting to help others. He said that is very important for him to continue to stay sober. They never mentioned God or any religion.
And recently, I met two guys, two handymen when we wanted to have the outside of our home painted. While one of them came to give an estimate, we started talking, he was very open and told me that he and his partner are former alcohol/drug addicts. It was very interesting listening to his story, he was like glowing from the inside, very passionate and he told me, he won his battle against alcohol and drugs when he met God. He was a thief, a liar, a cheat and at the lowest point in his life, close putting a bullet into his head. He looked a little bit like Roy Horn.
He said I might be scared of his partner as he is a biker with long hair, a big beard and also a former alcoholic/drug addict. And his life got turned around through God as well. During the week, he remodel homes but on weekends, he is a priest. When I met him, I thought he was a hunk: he looked like Sam Elliot. He had beautiful eyes, very calm, but intense eyes. And a calm and low voice. He was very open as well. And we had some interesting conversations while he was working here.
I don't know if they had to do anything with AA. But for both of them, God was the main reason they were able to manage their lifes. Both seemed very happy, relaxed and at peace. It was a pleasure meeting them. And their crew. Who were also former alcohol or drug addicts. They did not only talk but actually do: when we had all this rain a few months ago and flooding, they took one of their crew members in when his home got destroit, let him live with his family until they were able to help him rebuild his home. |
Wow. Great story CK- they both sound like my kinda people. I love hearing stories, and the best ones, imo involve overcoming a total tragedy. Like I said I don't doubt that AA might SEEM like the avenue to a lot of ppl- and I agree, some ppl DO use it as a viable vehicle, but I have no doubt that these two men, with "God" in hand, could have done it all along- WITHOUT AA.
Yeah, SOME AA "courtships" turn in to marriage. Others are much much much different. I can't find the place w/ all the letters of tragedy met in AA programs- everything from seduction, to outright abuse, not to mention the ppl who were loved ones of ppl "taken" by AA- but I will see if I can dig that up. I should have saved it.
edit to add- 
what your worker speaks of- his marriage - is called "13th stepping". They SAY no relationships for a YEAR- THAT INCLUDES YOUR CURRENT ONE BTW- but you know how "love sequestering" goes. 
Last edited by Fu-Gee-La on Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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***Deactivated: Pending Review***
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Posts: 7247
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:24 pm |
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| Need2Know wrote: | | I am not a proponent of AA per say, but if you are going to beat any addiction you must first admit you need help and you must be willing to make the PERMANENT changes to your life, habits and life style to be successful - call that anything you want. The very first thing is to not continue the same behaviors that got you into that addiction in the first place. Only those who truly want to change and get the support they need will do it and be successful at it long term. Support groups where you can be honest and feel those listening can relate AND give and offer support DOES WORK. A true addict normally cannot do it alone; they need help and that help comes in many forms. The first things though is you can't drink or do drugs or place yourself in situations or be around people who are doing that. |
Oh I completely and totally agree with this. It is a lifestyle change. AA makes it seem like a total and complete "metamorphosis" of epic proportions- Kafka style. That is the "first step of admitting powerlessness- and IMO that is just bogus. Completely bogus. It IMO, renders everything else "luck of the draw".
Problems arise b/c AA TELLS the person to alienate their friends. This is not how to battle alcohol. Alcohol is on every damm street corner in America, on ever blog, on every blip, on every MTV video, etc etc etc, and alienating your friends and holing up is supposed to help you? GMAFB.
If you don't want to drink alcohol, don't go to a party with your friend. What AA doesn't seem to distinguish between are a person's FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES who drink, and an addicts "friends"- ie DRUG/DRINKING "friends".
Doesn't everyone have "that" friend that one calls up when you wanna go "ballistic", or is that just me?
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***Deactivated: Pending Review***
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 7247
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:35 am |
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Yeah, what you said
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 8815
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:57 pm |
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she might be screwed. Utah?????
Bookworm Lindsay Lohan, during her stint in Utah rehab, reads a copy of “Alcoholics Anonymous” — AA’s 164-page “Big Book,” which mixes personal stories of redemption with a description of how the program works.
She apparently invited OK! magazine into her fancy Cirque Lodge detox center in Sundance, Utah.
NYDN gives us a sneak peek at the rehab regular cleaning up her act after her July 24 bust for alleged DUI, driving with a suspended license and cocaine possession.
“She really is taking it seriously,” OK! Editor-in-Chief Sarah Ivens said. “She’s replacing L.A. and smoking with yoga and reading.”
TMZ also reports that there’s a “strong possibility” that Los Angeles County district attorney’s office won’t slap Lindsay with felony charges for the July DUI bust and a previous one over Memorial Day weekend. That could mean just four days in jail for Lilo!
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***Deactivated: Pending Review***
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 7247
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