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pax
 Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:05 pm |
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| SavannahStar wrote: | | pax wrote: | | SavannahStar wrote: | | scheherazade wrote: |
But the national NAACP disavowed the statements of the Atlanta chapter. Quite some time ago, in fact. |
I don't recall reading that, but it could well be. Doesn't negate the fact that, as I said, race was brought into the case by blacks. |
Did Whoopi Goldberg say this is a race issue, or that she's speaking for blacks? |
Don't do a Wabbi on me now. 
Did I say that Whoopi Goldberg says this is a race issue, or that she's speaking for blacks?
She doesn't have to say this is a race issue......and it's NOT, except for SOME blacks, and I include her in that belief. I think she is most definitely speaking as a black woman, about a black brother.
As we used to say on CTV: JMO. |
LOL, I won't do that!
I understand what you're saying. You're probably correct. That stuff is tired and lame, and I don't think most blacks buy into it. Just as most whites don't believe any one person speaks for them.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| scheherazade
Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:19 pm |
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http://www.alternet.org/stories/57682/
The Humane Society of America, the legion of animal rights groups, and a handful of sports commentators that want Vick’s head skipped the racial subtleties and virtually declared that dog fighting is the “sport” of the ghetto, glorified by rappers, indulged in with bloody relish by gang members, and now by black athletes like Vick.
A Humane Society official flatly declared that dog fighting goes with the gang culture in every urban area. The Chicago Anti-Cruelty Society made the even more fantastic, and equally unsupported, claim that nearly forty percent of primary school children have witnessed or been involved in dog fighting, and that it’s a new ghetto rite of passage.
The braid wearing Vick is rich, young, and defiant, and is a tailor made symbol of the spoiled, selfish primma donna black athletes that think and act as if they’re above the law. They are the emblem of the greed, selfishness, and violence in sport and by extension in American society. The outlaw image of the violence prone, irresponsible black athlete has been drummed into the heads of millions of Americans. It’It’s easy then to dump blame for a decades old flourishing international industry such as dog fighting on the head of a young black man.
Since Vick’s indictment the claim that thousands of young black gang members and potential gangsters are bloodying the streets with dogfights has been widely repeated to slam Vick and urban blacks. But there is absolutely no hard evidence to back the claim up. In fact, it hinges on the anecdotal remarks of a handful of police officials in Chicago and a couple of other cities who said that gang members stage dog fight to establish and protect gang and drug turfs.
Though banned in all fifty states and many countries, dog fighting is a popular blood sport in dozens of other countries. That includes England, Italy, Australia, South Africa and Canada. It’s even legally sanctioned in some countries such as Honduras and Japan. As late at the early 1940s the United Kennel Club endorsed dog fighting, devised sporting rules for the matches and provided referees for the fights. In years past and even today, dog fighting has been a wildly popular “sport” in the South, Midwest and rural areas.
There are at least a dozen magazines that promote dog fighting. One of the most popular, The Sporting Dog, has a circulation in the thousands worldwide. The buying, selling, breeding and training of dogs for fighting has long been a big, popular, and lucrative business, with registries for professional dogfighters and dog fighting trainers. Professional dogfighters invest large sums in training dogs to fight and openly boast that their fighting dogs are of pure lineage. Big bet dog matches are held in posh suburban areas and dog fighting enthusiasts who include athletes, celebrities, and businesspersons wager millions annually on these fights. In some bouts, bets that range upwards from $20,000 to 30,000 are placed. Professional dog fighting then is a big, and expanding international business that’s way out of the reach of most poor young blacks.
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** Banned **
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 3864
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:27 pm |
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| pax wrote: | | SavannahStar wrote: | | pax wrote: | | SavannahStar wrote: |
I don't recall reading that, but it could well be. Doesn't negate the fact that, as I said, race was brought into the case by blacks. |
Did Whoopi Goldberg say this is a race issue, or that she's speaking for blacks? |
Don't do a Wabbi on me now.
Did I say that Whoopi Goldberg says this is a race issue, or that she's speaking for blacks?
She doesn't have to say this is a race issue......and it's NOT, except for SOME blacks, and I include her in that belief. I think she is most definitely speaking as a black woman, about a black brother.
As we used to say on CTV: JMO. |
LOL, I won't do that!
I understand what you're saying. You're probably correct. That stuff is tired and lame, and I don't think most blacks buy into it. Just as most whites don't believe any one person speaks for them. |
Well then we agree.
I guess the easiest way to explain what I believe is this: MOST people, black as well as white, believe that what Vick did was wrong. I believe MORE blacks than whites support him; however. And I believe that race has a lot to do with that. Much more so than their feelings about dogs or dog fighting.
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| scheherazade
Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:36 pm |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20112312/
Vick dogfighting case opens up racial divide
Quarterback's supporters are mostly black, his critics are mostly white
RICHMOND, Va. - The difference between those sporting Michael Vick jerseys and those urging his swift conviction on dogfighting charges is glaring: Vick’s supporters are mostly black; his critics are mostly white.
The racial divide emerged early in the case against the Atlanta Falcons quarterback, apparent at rallies filled with cheering — and overwhelmingly black — Vick supporters and at anti-Vick protests that are noticeably white.
Vick’s opponents say the evidence against him is overwhelming. For many black supporters, that judgment evokes uncomfortable questions about race and guilt in America.
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** Banned **
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| Fashionista
Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:00 pm |
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Alert!
I am moving this thread to the Moderated ~ Difficult Topics forum
Not censoring
Plz No meltdowns
Simply moving it to the appropriate forum
Thanks!
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Homeland Security - Refugee Staff
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 5300
Location: REFSTAGON
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| Fashionista
Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:26 pm |
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Just a reminder "Difficult Topics" is a "Moderated Forum".
As with all moderated forums, there are certain rules that must be respected.
By entering our moderated forums community, you agree not to do and/or engage in any of the following actions:
° Name calling, personal attacks or insulting groups of people, derailing, trolling, baiting, posting private messages and excessive use of profanity.
The Refugee Forum Staff asks that you do not make posts on this message board that contain content that you are not willing to take personal responsibility for.
Above are some, though not all, violations that will not be tolerated and may result in RU terminating your moderated forums privileges.
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Homeland Security - Refugee Staff
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| scheherazade
Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:32 pm |
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Hmmmm.
Didn't seem that "difficult" or even that heated.
But what the hey.
I suspect everyone posting on this thread absolutely agrees that dogfighting is repugnant and grotesquely cruel.
Not so difficult.
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** Banned **
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| Fashionista
Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:40 pm |
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Did I say it was "heated"??? that would belong in The Heated Exchange!
Difficult Topics
For Discussion of the more difficult issues in todays society, without bashing. Animal Testing, Racism, Euthanasia, criminal justice system,
Medicare, Welfare etc,
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Homeland Security - Refugee Staff
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| tulsad
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:15 am |
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Despite what some might like to believe, there are racist comments on this thread. Has anyone considered that some of our friends here at RU might be hurt by the broad-brush statements being made? 
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:02 am |
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| tulsad wrote: | | Despite what some might like to believe, there are racist comments on this thread. Has anyone considered that some of our friends here at RU might be hurt by the broad-brush statements being made? |
Yes, I've considered that. I encourage everyone to speak their minds.
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:26 am |
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| tulsad wrote: | | Despite what some might like to believe, there are racist comments on this thread. |
I really thought we had progressed past the days of JennyM and her righteous indignation and moral superiority.
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| tulsad
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:36 am |
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| pax wrote: | | tulsad wrote: | | Despite what some might like to believe, there are racist comments on this thread. Has anyone considered that some of our friends here at RU might be hurt by the broad-brush statements being made? |
Yes, I've considered that. I encourage everyone to speak their minds. |
Pax, people can speak openly, freely, and candidly - and should - without being harsh. Just as people should not have to fear reprisal for their comments/opinions; everyone should feel that they can read the opinions of others without feeling personally hurt.
There are comments here that have been presented as statements of fact, not the opinion of the poster; there is a huge difference. This topic quickly changed from Whoopie's comments to race. When the nazi articles were posted, they didn't open the door to discussion - they led to anger and arguments. That is my concern here; statements rather than opinions.
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| tulsad
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:38 am |
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| SavannahStar wrote: | | tulsad wrote: | | Despite what some might like to believe, there are racist comments on this thread. |
I really thought we had progressed past the days of JennyM and her righteous indignation and moral superiority.
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That is a cheap shot.
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Sparkly Tree
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:57 am |
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| tulsad wrote: |
There are comments here that have been presented as statements of fact, not the opinion of the poster; there is a huge difference. This topic quickly changed from Whoopie's comments to race. When the nazi articles were posted, they didn't open the door to discussion - they led to anger and arguments. That is my concern here; statements rather than opinions. |
Well in MY OPINION, the racist comments came from Whoopi, not any poster on this thread.
So we can agree to disagree.
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 21295
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:00 am |
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| tulsad wrote: | | SavannahStar wrote: | | tulsad wrote: | | Despite what some might like to believe, there are racist comments on this thread. |
I really thought we had progressed past the days of JennyM and her righteous indignation and moral superiority.
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That is a cheap shot. |
Call it what you like, it's true.
You shoulda been here then and seen what I mean. This whole situation now on here is EXACTLY what is what like back then. You couldn't say "boo" before Jenny would chime in accusing you of racism.
Oh those were the days.
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 21295
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| tulsad
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:26 am |
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| SavannahStar wrote: | | tulsad wrote: | | SavannahStar wrote: | | tulsad wrote: | | Despite what some might like to believe, there are racist comments on this thread. |
I really thought we had progressed past the days of JennyM and her righteous indignation and moral superiority.
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That is a cheap shot. |
Call it what you like, it's true.
You shoulda been here then and seen what I mean. This whole situation now on here is EXACTLY what is what like back then. You couldn't say "boo" before Jenny would chime in accusing you of racism.
Oh those were the days. |
My saying that "there are racist comments on this thread" does not mean that I am accusing anyone of racism. I'm not going to give an example because I don't want to focus on that; my point was that there may be people who are being hurt by insensitive remarks that are made without thinking.
ETA: I think Vick is a cruel pig. I do believe that Whoopie was speaking about Vick from the vantage point of a black woman - but I do not believe she speaks for anyone but herself; certainly not all blacks.
ETA: I just remembered something about Whoopie - the night that she and Ted Danson attended a Friar's roast and he wore blackface. She defended him against claims he was a racist. She may have meant exactly what she said; no hidden racial agenda.
Last edited by tulsad on Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:35 am |
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| dithers wrote: | | dithers wrote: | | Need2Know wrote: | | Why didn't you just slam her for what she said, why bring race and racial slangs into it? Who cares what color Vick or Goldberg are? All this does is compound problems, don't you see that? They are both people, plain and simple. Some with more sense then others, but people all the same. |
Why? Because I've heard this argument made over and over again in recent days from various media sources - which is where I assumed she's coming from - and the argument has been that it is something that is okay in the BLACK culture. Not southern culture.
And if you think good ole southern white boy is a racial slang then we have really become way way too p.c. and falsely offended. GMAFB. |
BTW N2 - If you want me to believe Whoopi is defending white southern culture than that is the biggest laugh I've had in a long time. |
You can give yourself all the f-cking breaks you want. Your posting style is demeaning and using racial slurs helps nothing. You can believe whatever you want but continuing to seperate people by race will only continue to cause divisions. You very obviously have strong opinions but they way you post makes it seem like you are the school task master and we are the lowly student body. Try a different approach and you may get more respect from me.
As to what Michael Vick did, it is horrendous and criminal behavior and anybody who defends it is warped in their thinking. "Cultural acceptance" and if or when "some" in society accept it has nothing to do with it.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:42 am |
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| SavannahStar wrote: | | tulsad wrote: |
There are comments here that have been presented as statements of fact, not the opinion of the poster; there is a huge difference. This topic quickly changed from Whoopie's comments to race. When the nazi articles were posted, they didn't open the door to discussion - they led to anger and arguments. That is my concern here; statements rather than opinions. |
Well in MY OPINION, the racist comments came from Whoopi, not any poster on this thread.
So we can agree to disagree. |
And I disagree with you. Dithers started this thread with a "race" based agenda. Go back and read her first two sentences.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9290
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:49 am |
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| tulsad wrote: | | My saying that "there are racist comments on this thread" does not mean that I am accusing anyone of racism. |
What? It means EXACTLY that!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, excuse me, I got it now......you're protecting yourself by defensively saying someone made racist comments, but oh hey, they might not be racist....just made the comments. Okaaaaaaaaaaay.
| tulsad wrote: | | I'm not going to give an example because I don't want to focus on that; my point was that there may be people who are being hurt by insensitive remarks that are made without thinking. |
Well again we can agree to disagree. I don't think anyone on here said anything "without thinking"......how can you be so judgmental as to assume that? As to "insensitive remarks," GMAB. Personally I think Whoopi's remarks were pretty damn insensitive. I don't have a problem with anything any of our posters said on here.
Geez and to think that all the Whoopi/Vick case posts are going along just fine and dandy over at CTV, which is WELL KNOWN for its archaic censorship. And look what we have now here on RU. I NEVER would have believed it. I'll just repeat, I thought the JennyM days are over. You sound JUST like her.
| tulsad wrote: | | ETA: I think Vick is a cruel pig. I do believe that Whoopie was speaking about Vick from the vantage point of a black woman - but I do not believe she speaks for anyone but herself; certainly not all blacks. |
I totally agree here and you'll find that is exactly what I said, upthread.
And I think Whoopi is also a cruel pig!  AND a racist. Now dare I post that? Might be "insensitive" huh?
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 21295
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:52 am |
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| Need2Know wrote: | | SavannahStar wrote: | | tulsad wrote: |
There are comments here that have been presented as statements of fact, not the opinion of the poster; there is a huge difference. This topic quickly changed from Whoopie's comments to race. When the nazi articles were posted, they didn't open the door to discussion - they led to anger and arguments. That is my concern here; statements rather than opinions. |
Well in MY OPINION, the racist comments came from Whoopi, not any poster on this thread.
So we can agree to disagree. |
And I disagree with you. Dithers started this thread with a "race" based agenda. Go back and read her first two sentences. |
I absolutely agree with this posted by Dithers, she is right on the money. Not racist at all. She's calling Whoopi's comments racist, which they most certainly are.
| Quote: | | This demeans all black people and tries to put them on a level w/Vick IMO. I never understand when people try to make excuses for the dregs amongst them. I wonder how Whoopi would feel about people defending egregious behavior on the part of some good ole Southern white boy simply because that was the culture in which he was raised. |
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 21295
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:04 am |
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Keep separating everybody by color, that is the way to go. Cheers to you.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9290
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:08 am |
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| Need2Know wrote: | | Keep separating everybody by color, that is the way to go. Cheers to you. |
Hey even Miss Politically Correct Tulsad said this, and she is absolutely right:
| Quote: | | I do believe that Whoopie was speaking about Vick from the vantage point of a black woman - but I do not believe she speaks for anyone but herself; certainly not all blacks. |
Now you can close your eyes to facts because they apparently offend you, but they are still facts.
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 21295
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| tulsad
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:09 am |
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| SavannahStar wrote: | | tulsad wrote: | | My saying that "there are racist comments on this thread" does not mean that I am accusing anyone of racism. |
What? It means EXACTLY that!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, excuse me, I got it now......you're protecting yourself by defensively saying someone made racist comments, but oh hey, they might not be racist....just made the comments. Okaaaaaaaaaaay.
| tulsad wrote: | | I'm not going to give an example because I don't want to focus on that; my point was that there may be people who are being hurt by insensitive remarks that are made without thinking. |
Well again we can agree to disagree. I don't think anyone on here said anything "without thinking"......how can you be so judgmental as to assume that? As to "insensitive remarks," GMAB. Personally I think Whoopi's remarks were pretty damn insensitive. I don't have a problem with anything any of our posters said on here.
Geez and to think that all the Whoopi/Vick case posts are going along just fine and dandy over at CTV, which is WELL KNOWN for its archaic censorship. And look what we have now here on RU. I NEVER would have believed it. I'll just repeat, I thought the JennyM days are over. You sound JUST like her.
| tulsad wrote: | | ETA: I think Vick is a cruel pig. I do believe that Whoopie was speaking about Vick from the vantage point of a black woman - but I do not believe she speaks for anyone but herself; certainly not all blacks. |
I totally agree here and you'll find that is exactly what I said, upthread.
And I think Whoopi is also a cruel pig! AND a racist. Now dare I post that? Might be "insensitive" huh? |
| scheherazade wrote: | | Quote: | SS wrote:
Race was brought into the Vick case from the get-go. And it was brought into it by blacks themselves. |
| Quote: | Sceherazade wrote:
I know you're not a racist, though this sounds like you are.
Of course race is more of an issue to blacks. |
[snip]
I don't think Savannah is racist, but the sentences she posted could sound racist.
[snip]
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Do you think that Shez sounds JUST like JennyM, too? She seems to have picked up a hint of a racist comment also.
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| tulsad
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:13 am |
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| SavannahStar wrote: | | Need2Know wrote: | | Keep separating everybody by color, that is the way to go. Cheers to you. |
Hey even Miss Politically Correct Tulsad said this, and she is absolutely right:
| Quote: | | I do believe that Whoopie was speaking about Vick from the vantage point of a black woman - but I do not believe she speaks for anyone but herself; certainly not all blacks. |
Now you can close your eyes to facts because they apparently offend you, but they are still facts. |
That was my comment and you completely misconstrued it. I said that Whoopie spoke only for herself. She is a black woman, so it's only logical that her vantage point is that of a black woman. I also said she does not speak for all blacks - just as she does not speak for all women, blah, blah, blah. You also skipped my follow-up comment that she may well have meant exactly what she said.
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:30 am |
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| SavannahStar wrote: | | Need2Know wrote: | | Keep separating everybody by color, that is the way to go. Cheers to you. |
Hey even Miss Politically Correct Tulsad said this, and she is absolutely right:
| Quote: | | I do believe that Whoopie was speaking about Vick from the vantage point of a black woman - but I do not believe she speaks for anyone but herself; certainly not all blacks. |
Now you can close your eyes to facts because they apparently offend you, but they are still facts. |
What facts? That racism is alive and well in America? That it is okay to keep seperating people by the color of their skin and because of that you have this feeling that "they" do and say or think "things" we white folks just don't? You bet I am offended at people who continue thinking like that. I guess we are having this discussion because you think it's okay. Why not just talk about the people using their names, what does black, green or orange have to do with it? If Whoopie is a racist, as you say, does that make it okay? It goes both ways, although I did not hear the word "black" come out of her mouth - what she meant, which you and dithers seem to think you know, is another thing.
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N2K
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