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pax
 Posted:
Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:43 am |
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Joseph Tacopina: The presumption of innocence does not have the same meaning in Italy as it does in the United States. For instance, there is no scenario in the world where you could be held for up to a year in the United States and not be charged with a crime. http://www.newsweek.com/id/118834/
Guantanamo.
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| olympic
Posted:
Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:24 pm |
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Amanda Knox leaves with police after a court hearing in Perugia last week
 i can't believe they would have a policewoman escorting her with a gun, inches from the accused's hand.
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:42 am |
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Thanks CK. What a strange case. It's hard to tell what happened, or what's happening at these hearings. I hope prosecutors will make clear who murdered Meredith Kercher.
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| olympic
Posted:
Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:32 am |
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September 25, 2008
Meredith Kercher murder trial: Video 'shows student hours before death'
Grainy film footage allegedly showing British language student Meredith Kercher in the hours before she was murdered in a picturesque Italian hill town has emerged.
Despite its poor quality, the Italian media claimed the CCTV footage showed Miss Kercher, who was brutally killed in a frenzied stabbing attack, returning to the house she shared with other students in Perugia.
The film also allegedly showed one of the three people accused of murdering her, drifter Rudy Guede, arriving at the villa.
Guede, 21, will tomorrow [fri] go on trial in a courtroom in the historic heart of Perugia accused of sexually assaulting and murdering Miss Kercher, 22, last November.
Also expected in court are his co-defendants, American student Amanda ‘Foxy’ Knox, 21, from Seattle, and her Italian former boyfriend, IT graduate Raffaele Sollecito, 24. All three deny the charges.
Guede, who was born in Ivory Coast but came to Italy at the age of five, has admitted being in Miss Kercher’s house on the night she was killed but insists he had nothing to do with the crime.
He claims he emerged from the bathroom to find a man fleeing Miss Kercher’s bedroom with a bloody knife in his hand.
He found Miss Kercher, a Leeds University student from Coulsdon, Surrey, semi-naked, with her throat cut and lying in a pool of her own blood.
Prosecutors allege that Guede, Knox and Sollecito murdered her during a sex game which turned vicious.
Guede says he left the house in a panic. He subsequently fled to Germany, where he was arrested and extradited back to Italy.
He has elected for a separate, fast-track trial which is expected to be over by next month.
The judge in the case has yet to rule on when – or even whether – Knox and Sollecito will face their own trials.
The images – from a car park security camera overlooking the house – allegedly show Guede in the same jacket he was wearing when he was arrested.
They were broadcast as an ‘exclusive’ by an Italian TV news programme, Studio Aperto.
A member of Guede's legal team, Nicodemo Gentile, said there was nothing incriminating about the footage.
"It shows just some confused pixels. For us it doesn't exist. We don't need to defend ourselves against a TV video," he said.
The images conflict with the evidence of a key witness in the case.
An Albanian, Hekuran Kokomani, who claims to have seen the three accused together on the night of the murder, told police that it was raining hard when he spotted them. But on the film footage, conditions appear to be dry.
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:35 am |
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Thanks olympic and gwen. What does this pre-trial hearing cover? When does the trial start?
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:28 am |
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Kercher pair hearing is adjourned
A court hearing for the couple accused of killing 21-year-old British student Meredith Kercher has been adjourned.
American Amanda Knox and Italian Raffaele Sollecito appeared together in a courtroom in Italy on Friday for the first time since they were jailed.
The pair and another man, Ivory Coast citizen Rudy Guede, deny charges of sexual assault and murder.
The body of Miss Kercher from Coulsdon, south London, was found in the bedroom of her Perugia flat on 1 November.
Her body was semi-naked and her throat had been cut.
The second pre-trial hearing was adjourned because the court could not hear the evidence of an expert crime scene police officer, said the Kercher family lawyer, Francesco Maresca.
He said the hearings would resume next Saturday.
Mr Maresca added that Judge Paolo Micheli is likely to make the decision whether Knox and Sollecito will stand trial "some time between 11 and 19 October."
Fast-track trial
A fast-track trial for Mr Guede, 21, has opened behind closed doors and his lawyer, Valter Biscotti, said two witnesses testified to his good character.
This trial will also continue next Saturday, with a verdict expected by the end of October.
Miss Kercher lived with Miss Knox and others on Via Della Pergola in Perugia.
Miss Knox and Mr Sollecito have been in jail since November, while Mr Guede was arrested later in Germany and extradited to Italy in December.
Last edited by olympic on Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:36 am |
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Thanks Olympic.
So Guede is on trial, with that trial expected to finish around end of October.
Knox and Sollecito testifying at pre-trial hearings, but no decision yet on whether they will stand trial. Decision on that expected mid-to-end of October.
This gets confusing, especially since it appears there's a gag order on all press accounts of trials and hearings.
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| olympic
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:58 pm |
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| pax wrote: | Thanks Olympic.
So Guede is on trial, with that trial expected to finish around end of October.
Knox and Sollecito testifying at pre-trial hearings, but no decision yet on whether they will stand trial. Decision on that expected mid-to-end of October.
This gets confusing, especially since it appears there's a gag order on all press accounts of trials and hearings. |
y/w pax! confusing is is..
i assmue you read this post:
olympic Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:42 pm
Meredith accused for fast-track trial
Published Date: 22 September 2008
A 21-YEAR-OLD man accused of killing Leeds University student Meredith Kercher will go on trial in Italy this week after his request for a fast-track hearing was granted. A judge acceded to Rudy Hermann Guede's request for a fast-track trial in Perugia on Tuesday.
His trial – which will be held in private and will result in a lesser sentence if he is convicted – will begin on Friday.
why would he ask for a speedy trial? 
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:30 pm |
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| olympic wrote: |
y/w pax! confusing is is..
i assmue you read this post:
olympic Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:42 pm
Meredith accused for fast-track trial
Published Date: 22 September 2008
A 21-YEAR-OLD man accused of killing Leeds University student Meredith Kercher will go on trial in Italy this week after his request for a fast-track hearing was granted. A judge acceded to Rudy Hermann Guede's request for a fast-track trial in Perugia on Tuesday.
His trial – which will be held in private and will result in a lesser sentence if he is convicted – will begin on Friday.
why would he ask for a speedy trial? |
Hi Olympic. I'm not sure. From a defense point of view, it might be in order to get a trial over with before any new evidence could emerge. That's assuming there is a bar on double jeopardy (being tried for the same crime, twice) in Italy, as there is in the U.S. IMO.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:45 am |
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thanks pax...i asked dugo to join us perhaps he can give us more knowledge..
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:57 am |
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comment:
79584 - Italy follows the civil legal code, which shares its origins with the Napoleonic code. It is incorrect to suggest that presumption of innocence does not exist in countries that follow a civil or Napoleonic code. In fact, presumption of innocence forms an important part of the legal system of all democratic countries.
As a member of the EU, Italy is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights. Article Six states: "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law."
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:07 am |
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Youtube Sex, lies & the murder of Meredith Kercher
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=BQV6MJXN5Tc
many more video clips are here of the perugia murder
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:10 am |
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victims cry Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:24 pm
someone might want to start a news/links thread i will sticky and perhaps an overview one for those who happen on the forum
http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=11757&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:25 am |
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WORLD FACTBOOK OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEMS -Italy
1)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/wfbcjita.txt
2)Criminal Procedure: Comparative Aspects - Adjudication
http://law.jrank.org/pages/901/Criminal-Procedure-Comparative-Aspects-Adjudication.html
3)Codice Penale I II and III
Part II (part 2) is the part where the crimes committed against Meredith Kercher are all coded.
http://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Codice_Penale
CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST MEREDITH KERCHER FOR WHICH CHARGES MAY BE BROUGHT INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING
Titled: Crimes Against People (1 Titolo XII: DEI DELITTI CONTRO LA PERSONA)
Header: Crimes Against The Life and Unscatched Individual (1.1 Capo I: DEI DELITTI CONTRO LA VITA E L'INCOLUMITA' INDIVIDUALE)
Homicide (1.1.1 Art. 575 Omicidio) Punishable by not less than 21 years imprisonment.
Homicide With Aggravated Circumstance *Capital Punishment *replaced by life imprisonment (1.1.2 Art. 576 Circostanza aggravanti. Pena di morte) Punishable by 24 to 30 years to life imprisonment.
Aggravated circumstance means, amongst other things, premeditated murder.
Sexual Violence (1.3.2.6 Art. 609 bis Violenza sessuale)
Sexual Group Violence (1.3.2.12 Art. 609 octies Violenza sessuale di gruppo)
The other offence is theft. Breaking into a house is an invasion of someone's privacy and is punished much more severely than a crime like snatching a wallet on the street, or stealing a car.
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:53 am |
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| pax wrote: |
Hi Olympic. I'm not sure. From a defense point of view, it might be in order to get a trial over with before any new evidence could emerge. That's assuming there is a bar on double jeopardy (being tried for the same crime, twice) in Italy, as there is in the U.S. IMO. |
like knox and sollecito trying to frame him perhaps?
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| pax
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:58 pm |
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| olympic wrote: |
like knox and sollecito trying to frame him perhaps? |
Perhaps.
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| dragonfly
Posted:
Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:43 pm |
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Everything I've read was that his attorneys advised this out of fear the other two would team up with their defense and finger/frame him for the murder. He'll be tried on what evidence there is now, a quick trial, and if found guilty have a reduced sentence because he chose the speedy trial. I think since there is question as to whether the other two are actually "ex's", that is probably a valid fear. I have read that they are still in contact or something to that effect. But I personally still don't see anything in this that convinces me that the other 2 are involved. This guy admits being there when it happened and at one point said that Knox was not present when he came out of the bathroom and saw the other man. I don't know. But I'm no where near convinced on this case.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:07 pm |
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| dragonfly wrote: |
Everything I've read was that his attorneys advised this out of fear the other two would team up with their defense and finger/frame him for the murder. He'll be tried on what evidence there is now, a quick trial, and if found guilty have a reduced sentence because he chose the speedy trial. I think since there is question as to whether the other two are actually "ex's", that is probably a valid fear. I have read that they are still in contact or something to that effect. But I personally still don't see anything in this that convinces me that the other 2 are involved. This guy admits being there when it happened and at one point said that Knox was not present when he came out of the bathroom and saw the other man. I don't know. But I'm no where near convinced on this case. |
Great post dragonfly. I'm not convinced of that scenario either. Hopefully we'll learn more in the months ahead.
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| olympic
Posted:
Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:22 pm |
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DNA from Meredith Kercher found on the blade of knife
DNA evidence will be presented by Italian police tomorrow in a vital stage of the case against three people suspected of murdering British student Meredith Kercher.
Patrizia Stefanoni, a senior forensics officer, will say that DNA from Meredith, 21, was found on the blade of an eight inch kitchen knife.
The knife, found in the kitchen of suspect Raffaele Sollecito's home, also allegedly has the DNA from his former girlfriend and Meredith's flat mate, American Amanda Knox, 21, on the handle.
Meredith, a Leeds University student, from Coulsdon, Surrey, was found semi naked and with her throat cut in the bedroom of the flat she shared with Knox and two Italian girls in the hilltop town of Perugia last year.
Ms Stefanoni will also present evidence to show that Ivory Coast drifter Rudy Hermann Guede, 21, was also at the scene of the murder - his DNA was found on Meredith and on a bloodied piece of toilet paper.
Today's hearing in Perugia will take place before judge Paolo Micheli.
It is the fourth in a series of eight scheduled to take place before the end of this month.
Judge Micheli has to decide if there is enough evidence for a full trial to take place against Knox, who styled herself Foxy Knoxy, and Sollecito.
Guede, who admits being at the scene has opted for a fast track trial as he fears a pact between the two others against him and his case is being heard alongside theirs.
Amanda Knox and her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito
One source close to the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini said: 'This hearing is crucial to the whole case against them - if the judge decides the evidence is flawed then the whole thing falls.'
Last night judge Micheli speaking ahead of the hearing said: 'There is no doubt that the decision on whether the proceedings continue or are dropped rests significantly on the biological evidence.'
All the lawyers have hired their own scientific experts and Knox's and Sollecito will both argue that the DNA evidence was contaminated by the police and as such should not be regarded as sufficient proof.
All three suspects are due in court for the hearing and all deny any involvement in Meredith's death - police say she died as the result of a bungled sex game.
Marco Brusco, one of Sollecito's lawyers, said: 'This hearing is of crucial importance to the whole case and it is a very important day.
'We are convinced that the DNA evidence against our client is flawed and we will prove this in court.
'If the judge decides that is the case then there is no way that the case can continue and it will have to be dropped.'
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:59 am |
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Thanks for the update. Since we're at the trial stage here, let's see if we get an individual forum for this case.
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| olympic
Posted:
Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:03 am |
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| yankee-in-france wrote: | | Thanks for the update. Since we're at the trial stage here, let's see if we get an individual forum for this case. |
y/w Y! 
maybe a sticky for news articles only as VC suggested back some time ago.
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:39 am |
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| olympic wrote: |
y/w Y!
maybe a sticky for news articles only as VC suggested back some time ago. |
Kay or VC have to give us the forum first, then I can make whatever you want.
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:36 am |
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Thanks so much, Kay and VC, and here we go.
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YIF
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:39 am |
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Very interesting articles. It looks like we will know much more in a week or so.
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YIF
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| pax
Posted:
Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:26 am |
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The prosecution contends Amanda Knox fatally stabbed Meredith Kercher. Quite a bombshell.
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