Fritzl: Articles

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SavannahStar

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:12 am

**SuperStar**

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 23937
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

SavannahStar

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:13 am

**SuperStar**

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 23937
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

SavannahStar

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:13 am

**SuperStar**

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 23937
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

SavannahStar

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:14 am

**SuperStar**

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 23937
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

SavannahStar

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:14 am

**SuperStar**

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 23937
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

PerryPeabody

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:16 am

Thanks, Savannah.

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1600

Black-Tulip

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:46 am

delete

Last edited by Black-Tulip on Wed May 14, 2008 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6981

Black-Tulip

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:47 am

PerryPeabody wrote:

Thanks, Savannah.

Sorry, I was too late. Very Happy

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6981

Black-Tulip

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:56 am

Okay, some translations.

1. The hand-painted poster was put on display in Amstetten.

2. Stefan said that he misses his sister Kerstin and "likes the sun, fresh air and nature".
He is happy being free and with his family

3. The family were reunited at the weekend in hospital.
Alexander misses the fire brigade, school and his sister Kerstin

4. Elisabeth thanked the public for their sympathy.
She hopes to be able to live in peace with her children.

5. Elisabeth said she hoped for a quick "recovery of my daughter Kerstin".
Protect the family with much heart and apprehension

6. Lisa asked for "love, happiness, health" and "that everything turns out well again".
She misses Kerstin, school, friends, nature, 1c class.

7. Felix says he dreams of being able to "run across a meadow" and play with other children.
Sledge riding, car riding, playing with a ball, to swim ... friendship ...

8. Monika talks about her sick sister Kerstin.
Wish: Kerstin get healthy, much love, hope everything is over soon.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6981

PerryPeabody

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:00 am

Thanks, B-T.
Will you translate what it says in the "Oma" picture in the hands.
TIA

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1600

SavannahStar

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:08 am

Thanks BT, I did leave the captions off. Didn't notice them until I started posting the pics.

**SuperStar**

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 23937
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

Black-Tulip

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:14 am

PerryPeabody wrote:

Thanks, B-T.
Will you translate what it says in the "Oma" picture in the hands.
TIA

Ich wünsche mir, dass ich mit meinen Kindern in Frieden leben kann mit viel Kraft und Gotts Hilfe. (difficult to read)

I wish that I can live in peace with my children with much strength and God's help.

Ich vermisse meine lieben Freunden und meine Freiheit.

I miss my dear friends and my freedom.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6981

PerryPeabody

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:20 am

Black-Tulip wrote:

Ich wünsche mir, dass ich mit meinen Kindern in Frieden leben kann mit viel Kraft und Gotts Hilfe. (difficult to read)

I wish that I can live in peace with my children with much strength and God's help.

Ich vermisse meine Freunden und meine Freiheit.

I miss my friends and my freedom.

Thank you.
That makes me sad.

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1600

gwen

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:24 am

How very sad! Crying or Very sad

AKA Gagal_05

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 22409

Dani

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:59 pm

"Newpaper Articles -- No Discussion Please"

this was posted at the beginning of the thread????? now everyone is posting comments and discussing topic???? what did i miss? i Fash...i sent you a PM asking what changed, maybe YIF can explain??? or Kay??? just curious as to what changed? Confused

my intention is to just ascertain the reasons, as i suffered repercussions due to my posting here a few days ago???? i did see Fash posting after i sent PM, and YIF, i appreciated your PM prior to all able to post comments here......clarification: i am not causing trouble.....just respectfully requesting an explanation....."that's all"?????

Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 810

tulsad

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:49 am

Josef Fritzl: The making of a monster

For the past week the world has been transfixed by the appalling crimes committed in Amstetten. But now it has emerged that Josef Fritzl was the victim of brutal abuse at the hands of his mother. Could this explain the man he became?

By Tony Paterson
Saturday, 3 May 2008

Josef Fritzl has been depicted as one of the most evil monsters Europe has ever known. The world has reacted in horror as the full extent has been revealed of the torment to which he exposed his daughter for almost a quarter of a century, raping her and fathering her seven children.

But yesterday there was a hint of different and more complex picture – one of the monster as victim, brutally abused almost daily by his own mother as he was growing up in what was then part of the Nazi-controlled Third Reich.

The revelations about 73-year-old Fritzl's childhood came almost a week after the former electrical engineer confessed to committing Austria's worst incest and child abuse crime, which led to three of the children he fathered spending their entire lives underground without ever seeing daylight.

However, new evidence about Fritzl's past appeared to offer at least the beginnings of a plausible psychological explanation for his monstrous crimes of multiple rape, incest and child abuse which continued for 24 years.

In an interview, the sister of Fritzl's wife, Rosemarie, a woman identified as 56-year-old Christine R said that Fritzl had been brought up by a single mother with an explosive temper who resorted to violence to control her child.

"Josef grew up without a father. His mother raised him with her fists," Mrs R said. "She used to beat him black and blue almost every day. Something must have been broken in him because of that. He was unable to feel any kind of sympathy for other people. He humiliated my sister for most of her life."

Fritzl was born in 1935 and would have been four years old at the start of the Second World War. It was not clear whether he lost his father during the war, but, when the war ended, he would, as a nine-year-old, have experienced first hand the invasion of Austria by the Soviet Red Army in 1945. Reports in the Austrian media have claimed that as a child he "suffered badly" during this post-war occupation which was notorious for the high incidence of rape perpetrated by Russian soldiers on civilian German and Austrian women.

Doctors have already provided an initial assessment of Fritzl's personality. Reinhard Haller, an Austrian psychiatrist whose analysis of defendants is used by the courts, has suggested that Fritzl suffers from a power complex that may have resulted from his being abused by his mother.

Sigrun Rossmanith, another Austrian court psychiatrist, concludes that Fritzl developed two personalities, one of which was dominated by the need to exert total control over others.

His own daughter, whom he held in his cellar from the age of 18 onwards was the victim of his power complex: "She was a slave that he could use at any moment of his choosing," she said, "He made her submissive and used her according to his needs. He exercised absolute control over her."

Fritzl's double personality is even reflected in the design and build of his (at first sight) ordinary looking two-storey house in Amstetten's Ybbsstrasse. The light grey facade of the building which looks out on to the main street is a normal turn-of-the-century provincial townhouse with net curtains hanging in the front windows.

However the back of the house which was extended out to include Fritzl's notorious cellar, looks not unlike the kind of massive Second World War above-ground bunkers that were built by the Nazis to withstand air raids. Passers-by are confronted with solid windowless concrete walls at ground level, the only windows at the back of the building are on the top floors, and the garden is hidden behind a row of evergreen trees.

Wolf Gruber, one of Fritzl's neighbours said last week: "Much has been made of the neighbours failing to notice anything funny going on, but the fact is that you can't see anything that's going on in the Fritzl house from the outside. Everything is concealed."

Yesterday more acquaintances of "Sepp" Fritzl provided further evidence of the duplicitous side of his character. Leopold Stütz, the deputy mayor of the town of Lasberg in Upper Austria who knew the Fritzls well and even went on joint holidays with the family, said; "I always had the impression that Sepp was an intelligent and successful man. He always liked to talk about his perfect family, but he was very hard on his children," he said.

Mr Stütz, who only learnt this week that his friend kept his own daughter Elisabeth, or Liesel, in his cellar and used her as a sex slave for 24 years, had assumed Fritzl's story that his daughter had run away to join a religious sect was true. "Whenever we asked him about Liesel, he used to say that Interpol was looking for her," Mr Stütz said. "He said that he was so worried that he even went to a fortune teller to try and learn what had happened to her."

All the time, of course, Liesl Fritzl and her children were being held as prisoners in Fritzl's underground bunker. Whatever abuse Josef Fritzl suffered from his single parent mother as a child, he appears to have made sure that it was passed on more than a hundredfold to his own daughter and the three of her children who spent their whole lives underground with her.

Professor Max Friedrich, the psychiatrist who presided over the treatment of Natascha Kampusch, who was held captive in a cellar for eight years, said yesterday that Elisabeth Fritzl, 42, her daughter Kerstin, 19, and her sons, Stefan, 18, and Felix, 5, would require between four and eight years of intensive therapy to achieve any form of recovery. Other psychiatrists have concluded that none of Fritzl's victims will ever be able to live normal lives. "It is too late for that," one said last week.

Doctors reunited the members of the Fritzl family earlier this week. Elisabeth Fritzl's three other children – two girls aged 16 and 15 and a 12-year-old boy who were allowed to live normal lives upstairs – saw their mother and their other siblings for the first time. The upstairs children were " adopted" by Fritzl when they were only a few months old.

Dr Berhard Kepplinger, the director of the Amstetten clinic where the family is being cared for, said that Elisabeth Fritzl and her mother Rosemarie hugged each other for a long time when they saw each other. "It is astonishing how well the reunion went," he said.

However there are still massive psychological hurdles to overcome. Commentators have compared the case of the Fritzl cellar children to the early 19th century case of Kaspar Hauser, the boy who suddenly appeared in the German city of Nuremberg in 1812 at the age of 16, having spent the whole of his life locked away. Nowadays, the Kaspar Hauser syndrome is a recognised psychiatric term for social isolation.

Kerstin Fritzl, who is suffering from a form of epilepsy that is linked to incest is on a respirator and has been put into a clinically induced coma. Doctors say her condition has stabilised. Elisabeth Fritzl's two other cellar children, Stefan and Felix, are gradually learning to talk without grunts with the help of their "normal" brothers and sisters.

But for both boys, coping with open space after a life underground in a confined bunker is proving difficult. Doctors have installed a windowless container next to their hospital accommodation to enable them to retreat into closed space if they feel the need to.

When police released Felix from the cellar last Sunday he saw daylight for the first time in his life. Pointing to the sky, he asked one of the officers "Is God up there?"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/josef-fritzl-the-making-of-a-monster-820370.html

Sparkly Tree

Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 10338

Guest

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:59 am

PerryPeabody wrote:

Thanks, Savannah.

From me too! I started a new thread on this subject...........

Guest

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:06 am

Dani wrote:

Yep...one

and I had my own thread for disrupting conversation..... Rolling Eyes

Remember folks............start a thread if you want to discuss....... Wink

Dani

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:35 am

Myra Manes wrote:

Yep...one

and I had my own thread for disrupting conversation..... Rolling Eyes

Remember folks............start a thread if you want to discuss....... Wink

absolutely agree MM.....no intention of making major issue, but some were vehement about not posting here.....so can i assume that the rule of "no posting" is still going to be enforced here? i don't envy admins/moderators jobs! Fainting

......they surely wouldn't reprimand all who posted here!

so no posts, "articles only", unless everyone is advised otherwise! yes

Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 810

PerryPeabody

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:45 am

From a tabloid:

Dungeon fiend Fritzl sneaked incest grand-daughter out of cellar for treatment while his wife was on holiday
By JULIE MOULT - dailymail.uk
15th May 2008

Scheme: Fritlz used wife's absence as opportunity to sneak sick daughter out
Cellar monster Josef Fritzl slipped his sick incest grand-daughter out of the dungeon while his wife Rosemarie holidayed in Italy blissfully unaware.

Fritzl, 73, took the opportunity to get 19-year-old Kerstin the medical treatment she desperately needed while his wife enjoyed her annual break with a friend, it emerged today.

He thought Rosemarie's absence would give him the breathing space he needed as he planned his elaborate explanation that after 24 years their missing daughter Elisabeth had returned with three children in tow.

This supports the police theory that Rosemarie had no idea her husband had a second family hidden in the basement below her feet.

A postcard seen by the Daily Mail shows just how oblivious Rosemarie was as she wrote to her family that was just days away from being blown apart.

In it she writes: "Dear family,

"My holiday has been lovely. Although I'm really busy every day, I fall into bed dead tired, but I'll soon be home.

"Love Mama."

Two days before she sent the card on April 21st, Kerstin was taken from the dungeon lair for the first time in her life as she lapsed in and out of unconsciousness.

Rosemarie cut short her break to Lake Maggiore in northern Italy after Fritzl called her to tell her another of Elisabeth's children had mysteriously turned up in Amstetten, Austria, and had collapsed.

The family's lawyer Christoph Herbst confirmed: "Rosemarie was away when Kerstin was taken outside and to hospital.

"Every year she takes a week away in Italy. She was there at the time with a close friend.

"She returned as soon as she heard about Kerstin."

But as Fritzl was desperately juggling his astonishing double life, police were closing the net.

Only six days after the postcard was sent, in the early hours of April 27, police searching the house uncovered the secret cellar where Fritzl had kept Elisabeth captive since the age of 18.

Two of her sons by Fritzl - Stefan, 18, and five-year-old Felix - were released for the first time.

Within hours Rosemarie was to learn the true horror that her husband of 52 years had incarcerated her daughter and repeatedly raped her, fathering seven children in the windowless cellar beneath the family home.

All along, she had believed his lies that Elisabeth, now 42, had run off to join a cult and that three infants had been dumped on their doorstep by their wayward daughter with letters asking her to take care of them.

In reality Lisa 16, Monika, 14 and Alexander, 12 had been brought from downstairs by Fritzl because they cried too much and he feared his twisted secret would be revealed.

Rosemarie raised the three siblings as if they were her own children, fostering two and adopting one.

From day one police have remained adamant that Rosemarie had no clue to what her husband had been doing.

They plan to reinterview her when she is deemed psychologically well enough to cope with questioning but consider her to be yet another of Fritzl's victims.

Chief of police Franz Polzer said: "Do you really think any woman would stand by her husband if she knew that such horrors were going on?"
http://tinyurl.com/3m8ltl

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1600

PerryPeabody

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:06 pm

I apologize for causing Dani any consternation

Dani wrote:

......they surely wouldn't reprimand all who posted here!

so no posts, "articles only", unless everyone is advised otherwise! yes

Yesterday I posted an article in the ARTICLES thread but it had six photos that I thought everyone here would want to see. Since I don't know how to transfer photos, I asked at the bottom of the article if someone would do that. Both Savannah and B-T kindly did so. The writing on the pictures was in German and B-T then, in another post, supplied the captions to the photos. I then asked B-T what the Grandmother's statement was. B-T was gracious enough to translate it. I thanked her and made the mistake of adding that it was very sad. Gwen, too, was apparently touched by the sadness in the Grandmother's statement, because she added a short comment.

Reading the thread, from the time I posted the article until the end of the colloquy, makes it clear that it wasn't a "discussion" of the issues in the article; it was essentially making arrangements for the posting and translations of the pictures that belonged with the article. (There were also"thank you's" thrown in there when appropriate.)

I certainly apologize for confusing anyone or causing Dani any distress.

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1600

tulsad

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:17 pm

Re: I apologize for causing Dani any consternation

PerryPeabody wrote:

Perry - it looks like Dani is just trying to err on the side of caution. Before the FLDS forum was set up, many articles were posted right in the one thread that had been started. Woe and Pro made combined comments that led to the idea of an articles thread; definitely a good idea. Unfortunately, the articles thread, in turn, led to some unpleasant comments being made to posters when they posted articles in both threads in order to make them handy for both reference and discussion.

Now that the FLDS and Fritzl forums are here, there is still confusion; but with the ability to start threads with each article, if desired, the confusion will hopefully clear up. Very Happy

Sparkly Tree

Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 10338

SavannahStar

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:17 pm

Dani's just happy stirring things up. Rolling Eyes

**SuperStar**

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 23937
Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

danascully

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:54 pm

Re: I apologize for causing Dani any consternation

PerryPeabody wrote:

Perry, no need to explain. You didn't confuse me or cause me any distress, and you sure can't be responsible for those who consistently make the same conclusions about everything.

As always, Perry, thanks. Very Happy

Smoke Stack

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 3143

PerryPeabody

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:53 pm

Josef Fritzl’s threats to gas family were a bluff
By Andreas Sam in Vienna
telegraph.co.uk
Last Updated: 7:31PM BST 15/05/2008

Josef Fritzl’s threats that his captive family would be gassed to death if they tried to escape their underground dungeon were a mere bluff, Austrian police have revealed.

Austrian police believe Fritzl started planning his dungeon in 1978
Fritzl, 73, who kept his daughter Elisabeth, 42, as a personal sex slave in a concrete bunker beneath his house for 24 years and fathered seven children with her, told his captive family that they would trigger a special mechanism and be poisoned by gas if they tried to escape.

He kept them in a constant fear of death also by telling them that they would be killed by an electric shock if they tried to open the steel door that imprisoned them in the 55-square-metre dungeon under his house in the town of Amstetten.

But after over two weeks of investigating the dungeon, police revealed that his threats were a bluff aimed to pre-empt any attempts of escape, as there were no gas pipes leading into family’s subterranean dwelling.

Elisabeth Fritzl told police that she had been thinking about escape but never dared to attempt it for fears that she and her children would be poisoned by gas.

The heavy steel and concrete door to the dungeon, which weighs over 300kg and is operated by a remote-controlled electronic device, has not yet been inspected by police.

"The door will be inspected by specialists next week, but it is clear that the suspect displayed a high degree of professionalism when he assembled it," Colonel Franz Polzer, the local police spokesman, said.

A team of forensic investigators helped by sniffer dogs and archaeologists using sonar radars were unable to find any traces of bodies or leads to other victims in the area around the house.

Meanwhile, the Fritzl family – Elisabeth, her children Stefan, 18, Lisa, 15, Monika, 14, Alexander, 12, and Felix, five, as well as Fritzl’s wife Rosemarie, 68 – are being treated in a local psychiatric clinic, where doctors confirmed that their recovery is going faster than expected.

The state of Kerstin, who has been put into artificial coma while being treated for a mysterious illness, has also improved.

Plans to move the family into another hospital to avoid the pressure of hundreds of international reporters and TV crews who have besieged the clinic have been dropped for the moment.
http://tinyurl.com/5cb462

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1600

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