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~kaRN
 Posted:
Sat May 31, 2008 9:29 pm |
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| Myra Manes wrote: | This news is sickening.........  |
I don't know anybody of this religion except what I learned from Big Love  Do you know something I don't know Myra from where you love? (  how freudian was that LOL!!!!) oops I mean live.
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Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 3457
Location: Glowing with hope and pride. Thank you friend for voting!
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| Tonk
Posted:
Sat May 31, 2008 10:46 pm |
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| apodixis wrote: |
“But after several revisions and an endless stream of concerns from dozens of lawyers representing the mothers, a frustrated Judge Barbara Walther walked of her courtroom saying that if all the lawyers could get their clients to consent and sign the agreement, she would sign it as well,…..”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/31/national/main4142613.shtml
Why not just sign the agreement to release the children with those who want to ? And then go on with the Mandamus hearing the one lawyer wanted later ?
Why demand that ALL of the clients have to consent to the agreement ? |
Because that one lawyer represented most of the mothers under the petition for mandamus that the judge was responding to -- because the mandamus related to all of those 38 mothers. We hadnt even begun talking about all of the mothers who were not covered by the mandamus. The judge didnt have to have a hearing yesterday, and she didnt have to vacate any orders, and she didnt have to allow all of this input from the mandamus mothers in making her orders. But she did -- and it was very clear that her purpose was to get the children returned as quickly as possible, but it had to be done in a safe and orderly way. The judge was bending over backwards to get the kids home, and that wasnt good enough. It was 6:10 in the evening, the judge had worked all afternoon to prepare an order that she was ready to sign ... and she couldnt get it done because the legal aid lawyer wouldnt allow it and wouldnt shut up.
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 723
Location: pray for rain
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| Tonk
Posted:
Sat May 31, 2008 11:37 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
I dont think anyone said they couldnt be contacted in a day or two. The Judge wanted the papers signed today so the children could start being released monday. That was not possible. It wont be a matter of just signing a paper and then getting the kids. there will be much other stuff that will have to happen. The parents arent going to be allowed to just walk into a shelter and pick up their kids. |
Yes the parents are going to be able to walk in shelter and pick up their kids.
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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Location: pray for rain
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| Tonk
Posted:
Sat May 31, 2008 11:43 pm |
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| pax wrote: |
It's also about how the state and the law deals with very difficult issues that are not black and white. |
Precisely.
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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Location: pray for rain
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| Myra Manes
Posted:
Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:27 am |
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| ~kaRN wrote: |
I don't know anybody of this religion except what I learned from Big Love Do you know something I don't know Myra from where you love? ( how freudian was that LOL!!!!) oops I mean live. |
I live and love just fine, thanks......  I only know what I've been reading since this mess took place ......And It's ugly .... 
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** Banned **
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 5742
Location: Puckered Up AssHole
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| pax
Posted:
Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:47 am |
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| Myra Manes wrote: |
I live and love just fine, thanks...... I only know what I've been reading since this mess took place ......And It's ugly .... |
It's ugly and will take time to sort out. The mess was caused by the FLDS, imo. I applaud Texas and the volunteers for facing it.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16032
Location: Wish You Were Here
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| pax
Posted:
Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:48 am |
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Do you think the Texas legislature might address some of these issues in its next session?
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Wish You Were Here
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| apodixis
Posted:
Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:49 am |
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| pax wrote: |
Do you think the Texas legislature might address some of these issues in its next session? |
Probably not.
The last time this kind of abuse occored in 1953 in Arizona, in the Short Creek raid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Creek_Raid there was such a public backlash that such wholesale persecution of polygamists was curtailed.
The overkill of the Texas raid, which was larger, will probably generate the same kind of public backlash; and any further legal action will be now be closely limited:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/30/texas.polygamists/?iref=hpmostpop
Last edited by apodixis on Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Location: State of Jefferson, Ecotopia
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| tulsad
Posted:
Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:06 am |
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Some Comments On the Article Sited Above
Reader comments: Search warrant accuses Jeffs of more child-bride marriages
9 comments | Read story
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700230555,00.html
Anonymous | 9:29 a.m. May 31, 2008
I think the correct term for this guy is sexual predator. It really does not matter whether he is skulking in parks offering barely pubescent girls candy and DVD's or playing prophet, offering them eternal salvation, and getting their parents to hand them over for "spiritual marriages."
And speaking of marriages, some wedding! In hotel rooms with no one but Jeffs and the "brides'" fathers. Ewwwww! Arrest the fathers for pimping even if they are out of state if they sent their daughters knowing what was likely to happen. For that matter arrest the mothers of any teenagers in that boat too.
I am sure some women are happy and resonably functional in FLDS communities. However, I also think there can be huge abuse dynamics. Think of the drug dealer's girlfriend who hands her daughter off to be molested out of fear for her own safety.
Finally, Jeffs keeps prophesying the end of the world and God keeps not obliging. You would think this is a clue about his fallibility. If he gets it wrong too many more times, what if they do the Jim Jones thing? SOME intervention is definitely reasonable if only to forestall that.
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What? | 9:43 a.m. May 31, 2008
Something doesn't add up here. Allegations, but no evidence of any crime? Where are the victims? Why isn't anyone testifying against Jeffs except the government? No victims, no crime right? This reaks of religious persecution. Texas changes the legal age of marriage from 14 to 18 after FLDS move to Texas to make it appear like someone has broken the law. Does Texas have jurisdiction over a marriage done in Utah? What about a marriage that happened before the law was changed?
Remember that Christ was also condemned in His day. Not because He broke the law, but because the Government and Churches in His day were afraid He would take their power away as He gained popularity among the people. Joseph Smith alike was misaligned by the government and Churches in his day. They killed him, not because he broke the law, but because they were afraid he would take their power, as he gained popularity in his presidential campain. Read Documentary History of the Church. Read the bible again. Hmmmm.....
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Hmm... | 9:53 a.m. May 31, 2008
Isn't the State the only one who can perform marriages? Who gave Jeffs his power to perfom marriages if it wasn't the State? Marriages performed without authority of the State aren't marriages at all, are they? If a bum off the street told you and the girl next door,"I now pronounce you legally man and wife" would that mean you were legally married? How can you convict someone of performing a marriage if they have no authority to do so. Could it be that Jeffs has authority from God to perform marriages, and that is the power the State is challenging? Oooh... look out government if that is the case. You are fighting against God if you acknowledge he has the power to marry. Where did he get his power from?
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(xxxx) | 1:11 p.m. May 31, 2008
Very sick! So, the "prophet" that everyone worships is a rapist! Dince FLDS members worship him, there's no other conclusion than to say that they support child brides and rape! Stewart | 1:27 p.m. May 31, 2008
Doesn't religious freedom (First Amendment) and protection from illegal search and seizure (Fourth Amendment)protect child sexual perverts like Jeffs and others in the FLDS religion? Isn't it their right to use children if it is for religious purposes? Many of the posts on the FLDS Texas articles seem based on this assumption. The well being of the children for many seem to be a secondary issue. I hope Texas law enforcement can get to the bottom of this before any more of these young girls are harmed.
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Unblievable | 2:23 p.m. May 31, 2008
I agree strongly with Anonymous.
WARREN JEFFS IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR.
WARREN JEFFS IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR.
WARREN JEFFS IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR.
Any way you slice it, it comes up predator.
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(xxxxxx) | 3:23 p.m. May 31, 2008
Can anyone see the pattern here, of young girls being married to much older men, abandonment of young men, because of competition for the young women? I see, not just brainwashed women. But, on the other hand, a whole group of brainwashed people. Was not Warren Jeffs himself born a brainwashed little boy? Who, because of these strange religious beliefs, I believe, did NOT even realize what he was doing was in fact wrong. They,the FLDS, prove this point by saying that men in the Bible did have many wives, and that many of them were of a young age. The FLDS thought, and perhaps still do think that our laws, against sexual abuse of a little girl are wrong. They are all brainwashed to believe it's okay to marry off your 12 year old daughter to an older man. I don't believe that Warren Jeffs even truely did not believe he was not indeed the "prophet", but insted a pervert, until recently. He did claim he was NOT the prophet, and was in fact a very evil man while in prison. Therefore, as discusting as his actions, I will have to say that he himself, is a victim. Anonymous | 8:18 p.m. May 31, 2008
To Trisha, Bingo! I agree with you. Warren Jeffs certainly would not be the first to go from abuse victim to predator.
I actually do not necessarily care if anyone gets prosecuted. Those spiritual marriage husbands are not off the hook. I think the state should do everything they can to make the case for prosecution, but the point is to send in enough fresh air, show the FLDS enough alternatives and let them find their own way out of the mess that is Warren Jeffs tenure as prophet.
When CEO's go around the bend, their organizations find ways to replace them. But the title of "prophet"is a little different organizational development problem.
I really do not care if consenting adults live polygamously as long as everyone is treated well, but the child bride thing just has WAY too much potential for sick power dynamics. I also am not sure the FLDS especially under Warren Jeffs lives up to the ideal of treating everyone well...
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(XX) | 9:01 p.m. May 31, 2008
Warren Jeffs is a child molester/rapist with a seemingly insatiable appetite for sex with women and girls of any age. His reported 70 - 80 "wives" include most of the "wives" his father Rulon Jeffs left "widowed" when he died a few years ago. The creepiness factor in this alone is huge. Warren Jeffs has created a heaven on earth for himself and a few of his closest male followers, a sort of "harem" to which he adds more members when they become available. No one questions him because he is the "prophet" and claims to be a direct decendent of Jesus Christ. {Now that would be an interesting family tree.} Women are traded back and forth between different men like children trade baseball cards. Anytime a group feels the need to isolate themselves from society, keep women barefoot pregnant and uneducated, and post armed guards at the entrances to their compound we can expect illegal, immoral and dangerous activity. The state of Texas knew this when YFZ ranch was created. They have been waiting and watching for their chance to intervene - they did the right thing and hopefully the justice system will realize this.
http://deseretnews.com/user/comments/1,5150,700230555,00.html
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Sparkly Tree
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