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Topsider
 Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 8:33 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
I dont think anyone has the right to be the thought police. If a religion, group, sect, cult, school etc have certain beliefs, so be it. they have the right to their thoughts. I dont have to agree with them. I dont have to think their thoughts are right, but I also have no right to tell them they cannot think the way they do.
Some parents think it is ok to allow teens to drink. Now, they have every right to think the way they do, but once they move into the place where they actually allow their teens to drink, thats where the problem comes in. Beth thinks she should peel the skin from Jorans face...no problem with her thinking that. but, if he actually does so, well, then she has a problem. The monkees think they should put a bullet in Jorans head. Again, so long as they think, and not do, no laws broken. |
I wondered how long it would take you to compare this to NH/Joran case
You are right about we have no right to tell others what to think. No right to tell the Nazis gassing the Jews was wrong. No right to tell the KKK lynchin black folks was wrong. And we sure as heck don't have the right to tell folks screwin a 13 year old is wrong. We only have the right to convict them if we catch them
In the meanwhile many have suffered, while we sit around and say "it's not our place" to tell folks when they "think" these things, it's wrong.
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 1972
Location: On Hiatus Beach
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 8:35 pm |
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| Katie wrote: |
Yeah, Shaia law is ok with you?/ |
We have had this conversation before. The thought of Shaia law cannot be governed. Of course, those who actually carry out the illegal concepts involved would be prosecuted, as they should be.
No one can tell someone else what they can or cannot think about or believe. They can tell them what they can or cannot do. Big difference.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 8:36 pm |
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| Topsider wrote: |
I wondered how long it would take you to compare this to NH/Joran case
You are right about we have no right to tell others what to think. No right to tell the Nazis gassing the Jews was wrong. No right to tell the KKK lynchin black folks was wrong. And we sure as heck don't have the right to tell folks screwin a 13 year old is wrong. We only have the right to convict them if we catch them
In the meanwhile many have suffered, while we sit around and say "it's not our place" to tell folks when they "think" these things, it's wrong. |
Big difference. Those people didnt just think, they acted on those thoughts. Im sorry you cannot seem to understand the difference in thoughts and actions.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| gwen
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 8:48 pm |
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Sect Case Judge Won't Sign Reunion Order
Court Refuses To Sign Agreement To Reunite Polygamist Sect Parents With Children
SAN ANGELO, Tex., May 30, 2008
(CBS/ AP) In a surprise move, the Texas Supreme Court judge in the polygamist sect child custody case refused to sign the order releasing the children until after all the lawyers and their clients could agree on it, reports CBS News correspondent Hari Sreenivasan.
Anxious members of the El Dorado polygamist sect came to court Friday with hopes of being reunited with their children, who were taken from the Yearning for Zion Ranch by the state's Child Protective Services nearly two months ago. The agreement would have returned more than 400 children to their parents by the end of next week.
But the court set preconditions for the children's release, including:
Parents must be photographed when they pick up their child.
Parents must agree to unannounced home visits as Child Protective Services continues to investigate sexual abuse.
Children cannot leave the state of Texas or even travel 60 miles without permission.
And not all the children would be allowed to go home, as lawyers expect Child Protective Services to keep custody of a handful of girls that they believe were younger than the legal age of 16 when they married or became pregnant.
"It appears to be a fair compromise to me," said Court Coordinator Guy Choate. "I mean, the children are going back … that's what everyone said they wanted. Everyone said they wanted the child not to be injured, not to be harmed, not to be subject to child sexual abuse. If you take everyone at their word this order will ensure that occurs."
Several lawyers pleaded with the court to reunite the kids this weekend, but the court said it was better to take the time, and get everything done right - putting the reunions on hold.
The key investigation now appears focused on Warren Jeffs, the imprisoned leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. An affidavit filed in Arizona charges that Jeffs married two 12-year-old girls and two 14-year-old girls before his arrest two years ago.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/30/national/main4142029.shtml
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AKA Gagal_05
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 14328
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 9:07 pm |
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it also required all of the children to undergo psychiatric evaluations, and lifted the August deadline. The biggest issue was all of the parents could not sign because some were spread out across the state visiting their children. The judge said all had to sign before she would sign.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 9:29 pm |
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deleted...articles not permitted.
Last edited by woebedamned on Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| victims cry
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 9:42 pm |
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I think we have to remember that judge Walther has been made privy to a number of individual instances/stories. There is a large concern over how the children may be treated once they return from "satan".
to be honest i don't see an issue with unannounced visits, and definitely not with psych evals.
IMO those would be done by any caring parent after this, and to have the court order it is no hardship.
The SC ruling did allow her to give her own orders so long as they were based on returning the kids.
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On Vacation!
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 9275
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 9:46 pm |
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| victims cry wrote: | I think we have to remember that judge Walther has been made privy to a number of individual instances/stories. There is a large concern over how the children may be treated once they return from "satan".
to be honest i don't see an issue with unannounced visits, and definitely not with psych evals.
IMO those would be done by any caring parent after this, and to have the court order it is no hardship.
The SC ruling did allow her to give her own orders so long as they were based on returning the kids. |
That is the problem...she still refuses to understand these are individuals. She insists all are guilty. As for the psych evals, yes, I would want one for my child, but NOT by a govt hired psychiatrist. I would want to take them to a doctor of my choice so i would know I was getting an unbiased opinion.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| victims cry
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 9:55 pm |
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whoa..she did not as far as i know insist on who did the psych evals. As far as i know it could be any psychiatrist including the parents choice no?
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On Vacation!
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 9:57 pm |
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| victims cry wrote: | | whoa..she did not as far as i know insist on who did the psych evals. As far as i know it could be any psychiatrist including the parents choice no? |
As far as I know, the tests would be done by CPS staff, since they would be the monitoring agency.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| apodixis
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:02 pm |
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| gwen wrote: | May 30, 2008, 7:09PM
Last-minute objection prevents release of sect children
CPS officials have claimed that all girls, even very young children and newborns, are at risk of sexual abuse because of sect members belief that any girl is eligible to once she enters puberty. CPS officials have said the boys are at risk of abuse because they are being raised to become sexual predators. Both arguments have been criticized by lawyers for the children as being overreaching and ludicrous.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5808210.html |
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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3202
Location: State of Jefferson, Ecotopia
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| apodixis
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:03 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
As far as I know, the tests would be done by CPS staff, since they would be the monitoring agency. |
I'm sure they will be fair and balanced. 
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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Location: State of Jefferson, Ecotopia
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:10 pm |
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| apodixis wrote: |
I'm sure they will be fair and balanced. |
Of course! It is, after all, for the children.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| victims cry
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:17 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
As far as I know, the tests would be done by CPS staff, since they would be the monitoring agency. |
they may be the monitoring agency, but anything i have ever learned about court ordered psych evals, does not say it has to be to one tied to the government. In fact most good cps make an effort to get independent psychs and do not resist a parents choice so long as its a board certified child psychologist.
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On Vacation!
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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| Topsider
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:19 pm |
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| victims cry wrote: | I think we have to remember that judge Walther has been made privy to a number of individual instances/stories. There is a large concern over how the children may be treated once they return from "satan".
to be honest i don't see an issue with unannounced visits, and definitely not with psych evals.
IMO those would be done by any caring parent after this, and to have the court order it is no hardship.
The SC ruling did allow her to give her own orders so long as they were based on returning the kids. |
That is a well reasoned thought
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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Location: On Hiatus Beach
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| victims cry
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:21 pm |
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eta... i think cps did overstep their bounds, but i also think their concerns were real.
I want the kids back with non abusive parents, and if a court orders psych evals, i will not assume that its to hurt the children. CPS overstepped their bounds but unless you are a conspiracy theorist, it does not meany any child psychiatrist is dancing to their strings.
There are times to balance disagreement with what the govt did, with things that might be good for the children rather than assume that its all to get back at the parents.
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On Vacation!
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:24 pm |
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delete...articles not permitted
Last edited by woebedamned on Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| Topsider
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:28 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
Big difference. Those people didnt just think, they acted on those thoughts. Im sorry you cannot seem to understand the difference in thoughts and actions. |
I'm sorry for you... thoughts and actions
thoughts get a alot of people wasted. Actions save
You already knew this
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 1972
Location: On Hiatus Beach
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:30 pm |
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| Topsider wrote: |
I'm sorry for you... thoughts and actions
thoughts get a alot of people wasted. Actions save
You already knew this |
The KKK is still free to think as they wish. They are free to show up in numbers at public rallies. They are free to congregate as they wish. They are NOT free to carry out violence against anyone. The govt cannot tell them what they can think or believe. That is the bottom line.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| Topsider
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:40 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
The KKK is still free to think as they wish. They are free to show up in numbers at public rallies. They are free to congregate as they wish. They are NOT free to carry out violence against anyone. The govt cannot tell them what they can think or believe. That is the bottom line. |
I was talking about the military. Who I have the upmost respect for
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 1972
Location: On Hiatus Beach
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:45 pm |
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| Topsider wrote: |
I was talking about the military. Who I have the upmost respect for |
I’m not sure what the military has to do with Americans having the right to think or believe as they see fit. I admit, the military protects that right for all of us, and for that I am grateful.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| tulsad
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:48 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
That is the problem...she still refuses to understand these are individuals. She insists all are guilty. As for the psych evals, yes, I would want one for my child, but NOT by a govt hired psychiatrist. I would want to take them to a doctor of my choice so i would know I was getting an unbiased opinion. |
The SC has agreed that the cases should be looked at on an individual basis. The few restrictions that the judge added would allow CPS to evaluate each family - they can't evaluate someone who has left the area with no forwarding address. Do you think there should be no conditions whatsoever put in place that will ensure that the children will be available?
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 10139
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:49 pm |
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| tulsad wrote: |
The SC has agreed that the cases should be looked at on an individual basis. The few restrictions that the judge added would allow CPS to evaluate each family - they can't evaluate someone who has left the area with no forwarding address. Do you think there should be no conditions whatsoever put in place that will ensure that the children will be available? |
nope
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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| tulsad
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:50 pm |
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| woebedamned wrote: |
As far as I know, the tests would be done by CPS staff, since they would be the monitoring agency. |
You are making that assumption - the judge did not state that.
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 10139
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 10:52 pm |
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| tulsad wrote: |
You are making that assumption - the judge did not state that. |
Hence my use of the phrase "as far as I know". I was VERY carefull not to say the judge said it. I knew I would be accused of putting words in the Judges mouth, which I did not do.
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6287
Location: pathetic joke of an American, bitter, gun clinging, God loving, racist cracker
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