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gwen

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:56 pm

woebedamned wrote:

WaMu CEO..on the job for 17 days, gets MILLIONS of dollars upon sell out.

They should take it away from him and give it to all the people that lost out...but we know they would never do that! Twisted Evil

Wonder what bank will be next? Scary times...

AKA Gagal_05

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 15244

annie13

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:46 am

You wanna be President- Here is the American People's Solution to our Government created 'Crisis'. This is real and serious.
If anyone up there REALLY understood money, this is what it would be.
Scrap the 700 billion $ 'bailout' that sinks Americans further in debt. It is not necessary.

Please note, the numbers will need some adjustment as we do not have exact population figures for adult citizens.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals
$425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,0 00 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. Washington will take the clothes from your infant baby to keep big business afloat and get their large kick-backs.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000, 000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000 .00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling it out a puny $1000.00 ( 'vote buy' ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
The Corporate Greed Mongers created this and WE have to bail them out- NOOOOOOO!

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam or let us keep the taxes. How many real Americans cannot pull their self and family COMPLETELY out of debt with $425,000.00. Pay it all off. The very few leftover that actually need more than this to get out of debt, will just have to figure the rest out on their own.

These companies DECEIVED US, and WE bail THEM OUT??!!!

Instead of all this mess, save the 700 billion bullcrap 'W. Bush' solution... like he has ever had a good one anyway, save $25 billion of AIG, Take care of the people that make them exist- US!
Who can't pay off ALL THEIR DEBT plus save some for retirement with this? If you can't the rest is up to you!

PLEASE PASS THIS ON!

McCain nor Obama will allow me to post this to their blogs

I didn't write this I copied it, but don't have who or know who authored it

I think it would work and I would vote for this person to be president Laughing

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1586

dugo

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:58 am

annie13 wrote:

I didn't write this I copied it, but don't have who or know who authored it

I think it would work and I would vote for this person to be president Laughing

If you like the prospect of hyperinflation..

Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L

annie13

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:19 am

dugo wrote:

If you like the prospect of hyperinflation..

Ok Dugo, I had to google "hyperinflation", copied: The main cause of hyperinflation is a massive and rapid increase in the amount of money, which is not supported by growth in the output of goods and services.

We have goods and services, but can't afford them!

and after a quick read, the alternative is depression, and that is where we are now IMO.

I learned something today Laughing

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1586

GeorgiaMom

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:56 am

Annie, a guy at work was going over the same idea Thursday and I think it's a great idea. We couldn't agree on who should get the money though.

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 4163

dugo

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:16 am

annie13 wrote:

You had houses and lots of people that could not afford them. Then the government in all her wisdom deregulated the financial sector. People who can't afford a house were able to get the money anyway sending prices sky high generating even more people who can't afford a house. This went on to the tune of 1.3 trillion!

These houses get dumped on the foreclosure market now because people who can't afford a house can't pay a mortgage of course. The prices tank and you are stuck with 700 bln in very bad debt, good luck recouping that! Should have sold more of this crap debt to foreign investors so your own country doesn't have to take responsibility for anything.

I can imagine a coast-to-coast block party. The brewers will not be able to meet the demand in kegs and will be happy to add a zero to their prices overnight.

Same will happen with nursing homes and retirement homes. All these people who no longer want to bother their kids with the care they need will exceed supply and prices go X 10 fast..

Every crack addict will dream about smoking all the crack they want only to find out the dealers raised the price to $297,500.00 for a days worth of supply.

The plan is cool but assumes a fictional economy where supply and demand have little to do with the prices. Elasticity.

Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L

Trixie

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:32 am

Dugo, this economic meltdown appears to have grown into a global economic crisis. How will it effect the Netherlands?

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6728

annie13

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:19 pm

dugo wrote:

Just not being able to afford the house, is too easy, to simple, the banks charged outrageous rates and did adjustable rate mortgages. People do not know how to use common sense with credit, buy a new house, then buy all new furniture, then buy a new car, then the property taxes get assessed, and the rate goes up at the same time.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1586

CancunMole

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:34 pm

annie13 wrote:

So, because these people have no common sense, obviously no understanding of any kind of economics (re ARMs) and can't control their personal spending because of a need for immediate gratification, then those of us who have worked our arses off and saved while paying our own mortgages and bills, should now fork over more to cover for these fools? What an example to set for those to come...

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1900

dithers

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:42 pm

CancunMole wrote:

Let us not forget that many of these loans were forced on the lenders in the name of 'fairness". An opportunity, if you will, for the more unfortunate among us to experience the joys of home ownership.

Janet Reno as AG during the Clinton administration threatened to take to court any lending entity that didn't extend credit and/or mortgages to the lesser priviliged among us. Liberalism and Socialism run amok. And this is what it's wrought.

Pretty in Blonde

Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 3468

CancunMole

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:53 pm

dithers wrote:

How right you are yet how sad it is that so many are so quick to forget where this mess began....

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1900

Trixie

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:03 pm

CancunMole wrote:

Add to that all the greed that went into packaging all this sub-prime mortgages and reselling them to the market and having them bought by re-insurers that were not regulated so that anybody (even hedge funds) could become stop-loss or re-insurers without having the appropriate collateral set aside.

I don't have a clue what the answer is. Just read this from the Chinese. The FDIC doesn't have enough money set aside for all of the potential bank failures.
I agree. We have worked hard all of our lives to get to here??

BEIJING, Sept 25 (Reuters) - Chinese regulators have told domestic banks to stop interbank lending to U.S. financial institutions to prevent possible losses during the financial crisis, the South China Morning Post reported on Thursday
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSPEK16693720080925[/quote]

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6728

dithers

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:04 pm

CancunMole wrote:

How right you are yet how sad it is that so many are so quick to forget where this mess began....

You can thank your worthless 'free press' (America's gatekeepers) for that. They have an agenda - and exposing the truth is not it - at least if it makes those they side with look bad.

The Freddie and Fannie messes have Dem written all over them up one side and down the other. Most specifically in the entities of Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. At the very least they should be booted out of office but they really belong in jail. Yet, here they are, still standing at the microphone making demands. The MSM in America 2008 is dead for all intents and purposes.

Pretty in Blonde

Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 3468

apodixis

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:10 pm

annie13 wrote:

Bingo.

As Pogo said:

"We have met the enemy and he is us"

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3296
Location: State of Jefferson, Ecotopia

Trixie

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:40 pm

I just thought of something. Who were they planning to borrow the $700 billion from to bailout Wall Street?

I hope it wasn't the Chinese.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6728

dithers

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:45 pm

Trixie wrote:

I just thought of something. Who were they planning to borrow the $700 billion from to bailout Wall Street?

I hope it wasn't the Chinese.

They aren't borrowing it. They're printing it.

Pretty in Blonde

Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 3468

Trixie

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:54 pm

dithers wrote:

They aren't borrowing it. They're printing it.

Oh, well that's a relief. Rolling Eyes

It is funny that the Chinese position is not being broadcast, isn't it?

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6728

dithers

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:06 pm

Trixie wrote:

Oh, well that's a relief. Rolling Eyes

It is funny that the Chinese position is not being broadcast, isn't it?

Our fine MSM never finds it necessary to tell us anything that is going on with the rest of the world. Except when they want to opine that the rest of the world hates us. But that is not true. The rest of the world does not hate us.

Why aren't they also telling us what Russia is up to in the Caribbean? That is major, major, major. Guess they're more interested in Todd Palin's 22 year old DUI and when exactly it was Sarah Palin started leaking amniotic fluid.

Pretty in Blonde

Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 3468

CancunMole

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:18 pm

dithers wrote:

Another how well I know..... How about these apples?

Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:
A little over two years ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.

Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican one should find these statistics enlightening and amazing.

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax 31,250

It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama is elected, he will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman [may he RIP]; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

Think the war in Iraq is costing us too much or where might some bail out $ come from?

We have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. (Hope all the links still work.)

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
Social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at:
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
by the illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border, also as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the Southern Border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances
back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million
Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States."
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1900

Trixie

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:32 pm

Another statement out of China denying the first statement from Reuter's.

Sept. 25 (Bloomberg) -- China's banking regulator denied a media report that it had banned the nation's lenders from offering credit to U.S. financial institutions.

...

The banking regulator ``never, through any channel, announced or notified domestic banks to ban lending to U.S. financial institutions,'' China Banking Regulatory Commission spokesman Liao Min said in a statement on the commission's Web site today. The commission condemned the ``irresponsible'' report and reserves the right to take legal action, the statement said.

Chinese banks mostly avoided the more than $520 billion of writedowns and credit losses by global financial firms. They hold a combined $721 million of assets at risk related to Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., which filed the biggest bankruptcy in history Sept. 15, according to Bloomberg calculations based on the most recent data released by Chinese lenders.

/... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601089&sid=aax...

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6728

CancunMole

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:09 pm

Oh Trix! Let us not forget these dealings with China.....

Quote:

It came in the middle of Mr. Zhu's three-day visit to Washington, the first by a Chinese prime minister in 15 years.

A Very Charming Guest (Too Bad About the Lincoln Bedroom Thing)
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: April 9, 1999

http://tinyurl.com/3mfkev

Quote:

Time Line of Clinton China Decisions

As the Clinton administration debated whether to allow U.S. satellites to be lofted into orbit aboard Chinese missiles, Bernard Schwartz, chairman of Loral Space & Communications, and Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung, allegedly using money from the Chinese army, gave more than $500,000 in soft money, ostensibly used for `party-building efforts,' to the Democrats.

The Justice Department and Congress are investigating how a technical report on the explosion of a Chinese missile in 1996--a report that could help China assess the reliability of its missile arsenal--found its way into the hands of the Chinese.

That report was prepared by employees of Loral, Hughes Electronics and other firms.

In a statement issued May 18, Loral said that `Bernard Schwartz, chairman of Loral Space & Communications Ltd. . . . was not personally involved in any aspect of this matter. No political favors or benefits of any kind were requested or extended, directly or indirectly, by any means whatever.'

The firm also declared that: `Allegations of a connection between the launch failure and a subsequent presidential authorization for use of Chinese launch services for another [Loral] satellite to China are without foundation.'

Nonetheless, Justice Department and congressional investigators are sure to scrutinize the chronology of gifts and decisions.

The time line does not prove any cause-and-effect relationship between donations and decisions. It does give investigators a basis for their criminal inquiry.

April 24, 1995: Loral chairman Schwartz gives $25,000 to the Democratic National Committee.

June 30, 1995: Schwartz gives $20,000 to Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, which provide support for Democratic Senate candidates.

Aug. 30, 1995: Schwartz gives $75,000 to DNC.

Sept. 30, 1995: Schwartz gives $20,500 to DSCC.

Oct. 9, 1995: Secretary of State Warren Christopher decides satellites should remain a military munitions item.

Nov. 29, 1995: Schwartz gives $100,000 to DNC.

Nov. 29, 1995: A Chinese government agency writes Loral, asking for help in getting an upgrade for its dual-use imaging technology, exports of which are prohibited under U.S. sanctions.

Jan. 26, 1996: Loral is sold to Lockheed for $9 billion.

CLINTON APPROVES LAUNCH
Feb. 6, 1996: Clinton approves the launch of four communications satellites on Chinese rockets.

Feb. 6, 1996: Wang Jun of CITIC, owners of percentages in Chinese satellite companies, visits the White House for coffee and dines with Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.

Feb. 8, 1996: The White House and Commerce Department begin to talk about the satellite export issue again.

Feb. 14, 1996: A Chinese rocket carrying Loral Intelsat satellite explodes, destroying a Chinese village.

Feb. 15, 1996: Schwartz gives $15,000 to DSCC.

Feb. 15, 1996: The State Department gets an urgent request from the White House to speed up the process of switching the satellite licensing to the Commerce Department.

Feb. 29, 1996: Schwartz gives $50,000 to Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which bankrolls Democratic House candidates.

March 8, 1996: China launches missiles.

March 14, 1996: Clinton decides to move the satellite licensing function to the Commerce Department.

March 15, 1996: Loral President J.A. Lindfelt writes Commerce to say the export of a dual-use technology, known as synthetic aperture radar, is being held up by the Defense, State and Commerce departments.

April 1996: Schwartz announces the formation of Loral Space and Communications.

April 24, 1996: Schwartz gives $50,000 to DSCC.

June 10, 1996: Schwartz gives $100,000 to DNC.

July 22, 1996: Liu Chao-Ying of China Aerospace meets Clinton with Johnny Chung.

July 31, 1996: Schwartz gives $5,000 to DSCC.

INFLUX OF CHINESE MONEY
August 1996: Chung accounts show an influx of $300,000 from Liu Chao-Ying.

Aug. 18, 1996: Chung gives $20,000 to DNC to attend Clinton's birthday party.

Aug. 28, 1996: Chung gives $15,000 to DNC at Democratic National Convention in Chicago.

Sept. 16, 1996: Schwartz gives $30,000 to DSCC.

Sept. 20, 1996: Schwartz gives $20,000 to DSCC.

Oct. 16, 1996: Schwartz gives $10,000 to DSCC.

Oct. 18, 1996: Schwartz gives $70,000 to DNC.

Oct. 24, 1996: Schwartz gives $5,000 to DSCC.

Nov. 5, 1996: New guidelines on Commerce licensing of satellites are published.

Nov. 5, 1996: Clinton is elected to his second term as president.

Oct., 1997: A federal investigation of Loral begins.

Feb. 12, 1998: As Clinton ponders whether to sign another waiver allowing launch of a Loral satellite aboard a Chinese missile, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger sends him a memo saying the Justice Department `has cautioned that a national interest waiver in this case could have a significant adverse impact on any prosecution [of Loral] that might take place based on a pending investigation of export violation.'

But Berger adds that `the advantages of this project outweigh the risk,' and `it is inappropriate to penalize [Loral] before they have even been charged with any crime.'

Feb. 18, 1998: Clinton signs a waiver allowing Loral satellite to be lifted into orbit by the Chinese.

http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/h980618-prc8.htm

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1900

dugo

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:31 pm

Trixie wrote:

Dugo, this economic meltdown appears to have grown into a global economic crisis. How will it effect the Netherlands?

Some banks will have a rough time, interest rates will be going up, some pension funds probably lost significant money.

Sickens me, here we are with regulated mortgages (you can't borrow over 4.5 x your documented annual salary // can't borrow over 125% of foreclosure value) .. if there is a rest debt after foreclosure you are stuck with it personally..

and now end up with shit because in another country they generated 1.3 trillion in bad mortgages to people who can just file for bancruptcy and start over with a clean sheet..

Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L

dugo

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:37 pm

annie13 wrote:

Quote:

You had houses and lots of people that could not afford them. Then the government in all her wisdom deregulated the financial sector. People who can't afford a house were able to get the money anyway

Yes, that is what deregulation does.. you kill laws and regulations that protect people with a lack of common sense and let the free market do whatever it pleases. Just like we have seen communism go bankrupt, this is the bankruptcy of unreigned capitalism.

Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L

dugo

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:51 pm

dithers wrote:

They aren't borrowing it. They're printing it.

Better get some stock in paper mills if that's true..

Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L

Alexandria

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:13 pm

CancunMole wrote:

How right you are yet how sad it is that so many are so quick to forget where this mess began....

Again, the 30 year old MBA's making big decisions.
And the 60 year old CEO's who want another few million to line their already over-stuffed pockets.

There is much to be said for remembering the past, for knowing the past.

Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 445

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