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GeorgiaMom

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:46 am

A big help in turning the economy around would be for big businesses to accept some responsibility in the fact that they made poor business decisions along the way.

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 4163

pax

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:37 am

GeorgiaMom wrote:

A big help in turning the economy around would be for big businesses to accept some responsibility in the fact that they made poor business decisions along the way.

Definitely. Paying their fair share of taxes is a start. That's one reason I feel Obama has the better economic policy.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16326
Location: Wish You Were Here

Need2Know

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:38 am

pax wrote:

Definitely. Paying their fair share of taxes is a start. That's one reason I feel Obama has the better economic policy.

He has no policy pax, only empty promises. Not to mention that he will be BIG on tax and spend, something this country does not need now or ever.

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

pax

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:08 pm

Need2Know wrote:

He has no policy pax, only empty promises. Not to mention that he will be BIG on tax and spend, something this country does not need now or ever.

That's bullshit, n2k. Nothing personal there, pal.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Cool

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16326
Location: Wish You Were Here

Need2Know

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:13 pm

pax wrote:

That's bullshit, n2k. Nothing personal there, pal.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Cool

That is his own website, what will that really tell us? Confused

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

Alvin

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:21 pm

Need2Know wrote:

That is his own website, what will that really tell us? Confused

The US Economy is in a state of collapse right now, take a look around you and see the writing on the wall as its happening right now.

What is required is a brain filled with new and proven ideas that have worked in the present leading economies of the world, of which the US is not one of them and not a continuation of 8 year old policies that have resulted in what you have seen and experienced over the past 2 years.

You can't use war tactics in an economic scenerio, that has proven to never work, period. Wink

GO Barack GO !!!!

** Banned **

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1196

pax

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:33 pm

Need2Know wrote:

That is his own website, what will that really tell us? Confused

It tells me that it's a refutation of the claim:

"He has no policy pax, only empty promises. Not to mention that he will be BIG on tax and spend, something this country does not need now or ever."

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16326
Location: Wish You Were Here

Need2Know

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:38 pm

Alvin wrote:

Collapse?

I think not. Factors other than Bush and the war have contributed to what you now see. What is new and proven according to you?

edited by Fashionista to fix quotes

Last edited by Need2Know on Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

Need2Know

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:39 pm

pax wrote:

It tells me that it's a refutation of the claim:

"He has no policy pax, only empty promises. Not to mention that he will be BIG on tax and spend, something this country does not need now or ever."

Obama says "I'll promise you the world, just trust me" Very Happy

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

pax

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:56 pm

Need2Know wrote:

Obama says "I'll promise you the world, just trust me" Very Happy

McCain says 'Stay the course. The Titanic is fundamentally sound. Iceberg, Goldberg no difference, it's all liberal media" Laughing

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16326
Location: Wish You Were Here

Alvin

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:10 pm

Need2Know wrote:

Alvin wrote:

Collapse?

I think not. Factors other than Bush and the war have contributed to what you now see. What is new and proven according to you?

Poof! There go Americans' dreams

So much for the fairy tale about the little guy buying stocks for a sweet life and a safe retirement. Now that vision is crumbling along with some of Wall Street's giants, MSN Money's Jon Markman says.

So much for the fairy tale about the little guy buying stocks for a sweet life and a safe retirement. Now that vision is crumbling along with some of Wall Street's giants.

As one major financial institution after another succumbs to crushing losses this year, it is mourning in America for the hopes of average working people who believed in the myth of stock ownership as a sure path to a better life now and a safe retirement later.

It may sound like a gross exaggeration to say that the dreams of Main Street are dying on Wall Street this week, but it is a fair interpretation of recent events. For the capital that is required to fund businesses, schools, streets, farms, vacations, homes and cars is quite literally evaporating like dew at the start of a summer day with the untimely death of every bank, brokerage and insurance company.

Where did the money come from, and where has it gone? It's an interesting saga, and it will take just a few minutes to tell. Let me warn you first that it starts out like a fairy tale but quickly becomes a horror story, so I'll be sure to tell you when to cover your eyes.

The times that Wall Street forgot
For years, banks, brokers and insurance companies have besieged us with marketing claims that the regular purchase of shares in public companies would effortlessly grow in value forever.

Never mind that there have been long periods in the past century -- such as, roughly, 1929 to 1932, 1937 to 1949 and 1965 to 1982 -- when this simply wasn't true. It has been valid enough in the recent consciousness, from 1982 to 2000, and with that hopeful seed planted, the same ad whizzes who depend on our natural human optimism to buy all manner of fluff took it from there.

This hasn't always been the case -- far from it. During the first 90% of the industrial age, companies that wanted to grow their businesses were required to convince committees of stingy men at banks that their projects were worth investing in. Those committees were loath to put their firms' capital at risk, so they demanded both collateral and personal-liability agreements from supplicants. Except for brief and disastrous interludes of public participation in Europe -- each of which ended with 100 years of citizens' abstinence from capital markets -- only people of great means financed industry.

But in the middle of the 20th century, an unchecked ambition to build big projects across the United States and Asia was married to the development of mass-market advertising techniques, and the practice of persuading average moms and dads to put hard-earned money to work in big business with little fear as to its safety was born.

Railroad and shipping barons of earlier times would be shocked to discover how little concern most people have exercised in the past few decades when plunking their salaries into mutual funds or individual stocks. The idea of risk-free investing, to people who really take the risks and thus understand them, is laughable.

It is only now, during this period of acute crisis, that individuals who won't go on a bicycle without a plastic-foam helmet are coming to grips with what business risk really means. And that is why a childlike innocence is dying along with the stock market this week, making people feel as sad, helpless and angry as when they first discovered the truth about other realities of adulthood.

Unfortunately, it is not just working people who are learning these lessons. It is investment-industry workers, too, and supposedly sophisticated hedge fund managers and bank executives, not to mention government officials and regulators. For virtually all have succumbed to the falsehood that risk is just a four-letter synonym for opportunity to some degree or another. They have stumbled into making bets at a casino whose rules they don't really understand and that are not, in any case, written down.

Neither a borrower . . .
At this moment, at trading-desk workstations and brokerage back offices around the globe, there is a process of creative destruction taking place -- not just of capital but of beliefs. Every financial institution is trying to come to grips with how much exposure it has to Lehman Bros. (LEH, news, msgs), the 158-year-old investment bank that has just declared itself insolvent with almost $650 billion in liabilities.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/poof-there-goes-an-american-dream.aspx

edited by Fashionista to fix quotes

** Banned **

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1196

woebedamned

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:17 pm

delete--too negative

Last edited by woebedamned on Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

Damn it All!!!!

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6309

woebedamned

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:29 pm

edit -- too negative

Last edited by woebedamned on Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Damn it All!!!!

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6309

Need2Know

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:41 pm

woebedamned wrote:

I didnt know the American dream was nothing more than taking a risk in the stock markets. I always felt following a dream meant if one worked hard they could have success.

Alvin is simply jumping on the bashfest. I have lost almost 10% in the stock market for my portfolio of my retirement account but I know that the market will recover just as it did after 9/11. I have 18 years to go before retirement so I feel my money is safe. The history of the markeet is one of perpetual gain with only mininal periods of losses due to major events.

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

Need2Know

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:00 pm

woebedamned wrote:

I think America is fundamentally strong. As an "average American", neither party has ever had much effect on how much I do or do not have. We work for our money, dont over-extend ourselves by buying more house than we can afford, we dont use credit to purchase "nice to haves", and we never risk more than we can afford to lose.

I've said it before and I will say it again, neither Obama or McCain can solve these problems. Change has to come from the people, not the government. Until the people are willing to change their "I am entitled" attitude, these problems wont go away.

Risk is relative. The longer you are away from retirement the more you can afford to risk on the companies who have had higher yields but are less solid or you can stay safe with treasury bonds or move your money to treasury bonds the closer you are to retirement. The key is to diversify your portfolio of mutual funds and not have all your money in just a few accounts/funds/companies.

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

Alvin

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:01 pm

Need2Know wrote:

I am not bashing, I am attempting to hold a meaningful discussion.

I have no reason to bash America or Americans, so kindly restrain yourself from going unneccessarily onto the defensive.

I happen to believe that Barack OBama would not only be good for the world in general but for America as well.

BTW, what age is retirement-age in the US ?

** Banned **

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1196

Need2Know

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:06 pm

Alvin wrote:

It depends how well you invest Very Happy

Sorry if I mistook your earlier posts, they seemed like bashing to me. I believe Barack Obama is simply just one more politician trying to make a name for himself with lofty ideas that many Americans are oppposed to and I also believe he is much pomp and circumstance but little substance.

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

woebedamned

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:40 pm

Alvin wrote:

edit -- too negative

Last edited by woebedamned on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Damn it All!!!!

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6309

woebedamned

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:55 pm

edit -- too negative

Last edited by woebedamned on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Damn it All!!!!

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6309

gwen

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:19 pm

woebedamned wrote:

How bad can things be if people can afford to pay 25,000 for a steak dinner?

How about the $50,000 dinner?

AKA Gagal_05

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 15244

woebedamned

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:24 pm

gwen wrote:

How about the $50,000 dinner?

edit -- too negative

Last edited by woebedamned on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Damn it All!!!!

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 6309

gwen

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:26 pm

In hard times, tent cities rise across the country
Since foreclosure mess, homeless advocates report rise in encampments

Homeless encampments are springing up around the country, including this one next to the homeless shelter in downtown Reno, Nev.

RENO, Nev. - A few tents cropped up hard by the railroad tracks, pitched by men left with nowhere to go once the emergency winter shelter closed for the summer.

Then others appeared — people who had lost their jobs to the ailing economy, or newcomers who had moved to Reno for work and discovered no one was hiring.

Within weeks, more than 150 people were living in tents big and small, barely a foot apart in a patch of dirt slated to be a parking lot for a campus of shelters Reno is building for its homeless population. Like many other cities, Reno has found itself with a "tent city" — an encampment of people who had nowhere else to go.

[b]From Seattle to Athens, Ga., homeless advocacy groups and city agencies are reporting the most visible rise in homeless encampments in a generation.

Nearly 61 percent of local and state homeless coalitions say they've experienced a rise in homelessness since the foreclosure crisis began in 2007, according to a report by the National Coalition for the Homeless. The group says the problem has worsened since the report's release in April, with foreclosures mounting, gas and food prices rising and the job market tightening.

"It's clear that poverty and homelessness have increased," said Michael Stoops, acting executive director of the coalition. "The economy is in chaos, we're in an unofficial recession and Americans are worried, from the homeless to the middle class, about their future."

Caught by surprise
The phenomenon of encampments has caught advocacy groups somewhat by surprise, largely because of how quickly they have sprung up.

"What you're seeing is encampments that I haven't seen since the 80s," said Paul Boden, executive director of the Western Regional Advocacy Project, an umbrella group for homeless advocacy organizations in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, Calif., Portland, Ore. and Seattle.

The relatively tony city of Santa Barbara has given over a parking lot to people who sleep in cars and vans.

The city of Fresno, Calif., is trying to manage several proliferating tent cities, including an encampment where people have made shelters out of scrap wood.

In Portland, Ore., and Seattle, homeless advocacy groups have paired with nonprofits or faith-based groups to manage tent cities as outdoor shelters.

Other cities where tent cities have either appeared or expanded include include Chattanooga, Tenn., San Diego, and Columbus, Ohio.

The Department of Housing and Urban Development recently reported a 12 percent drop in homelessness nationally in two years, from about 754,000 in January 2005 to 666,000 in January 2007. But the 2007 numbers omitted people who previously had been considered homeless — such as those staying with relatives or friends or living in campgrounds or motel rooms for more than a week.

In addition, the housing and economic crisis began soon after HUD's most recent data was compiled.

"The data predates the housing crisis," said Brian Sullivan, a spokesman for HUD. "From the headlines, it might appear that the report is about yesterday. How is the housing situation affecting homelessness? That's a great question. We're still trying to get to that."

In Seattle, which is experiencing a building boom and an influx of affluent professionals in neighborhoods the working class once owned, homeless encampments have been springing up — in remote places to avoid police sweeps.

"What's happening in Seattle is what's happening everywhere else — on steroids," said Tim Harris, executive director of Real Change, an advocacy organization that publishes a weekly newspaper sold by homeless people.

Homeless people and their advocates have organized three tent cities at City Hall in recent months to call attention to the homeless and protest the sweeps — acts of militancy, said Harris, "that we really haven't seen around homeless activism since the early '90s."

In Reno, officials decided to let the tent city be because shelters were already filled.

Officials don't know how many homeless people are in Reno. "But we do know that the soup kitchens are serving hundreds more meals a day and that we have more people who are homeless than we can remember," said Jodi Royal-Goodwin, the city's redevelopment agency director.

Those in the tents have to register and are monitored weekly to see what progress they are making in finding jobs or real housing. They are provided times to take showers in the shelter, and told where to go for food and meals.

Hopes for casino jobs dashed
Sylvia Flynn, 51, came from northern California but lost a job almost immediately and then her apartment.

Since the cheapest motels here charge upward of $200 a week, Flynn ended up at the Reno women's shelter, which has only 20 beds and a two-week limit on stays.

Out of a dozen people interviewed in the tent city, six had come to Reno from California or elsewhere over the last year, hoping for casino jobs.

"I figured this would be a great place for a job," said Max Perez, a 19-year-old from Iowa. He couldn't find one and ended up taking showers at the men's shelter and sleeping in a pup tent barely big enough to cover his body.

The casinos are actually starting to lay off employees.

"Sometimes I think we need to put out an ad: 'No, we don't have any more jobs than you do,'" Royal-Goodwin said.

The city will shut down the tent city as soon as early October because the tents sit on what will be a parking lot for a complex of shelters and services for homeless people. The complex will include a men's shelter, a women's shelter, a family shelter and a resource center.

Reno officials aren't sure whether the construction will eliminate the need for the tent city. The demand, they say, keeps growing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26776283/

AKA Gagal_05

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 15244

gwen

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:28 pm

woebedamned wrote:

Like I keep saying, neither man has a clue. 77% of Obama's ads have been attack ads....56% of McCains ads have been attack ads. That doesnt leave much room for any REAL change, does it?

No it doesn't, woe. Clueless and we pay the price...

AKA Gagal_05

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 15244

DocTar

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:40 am

woebedamned wrote:

Like I keep saying, neither man has a clue. 77% of Obama's ads have been attack ads....56% of McCains ads have been attack ads. That doesnt leave much room for any REAL change, does it?

Are you sure your percentages are fair? Maybe cause McCain is your guy? Cause I have read that McCain is the one on the attack far more than the 56% you credit him with. More like the 77% you so generously and so unarbitrarily give to Obama...not your guy. But then I am being facetious. Laughing

Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 2007
Location: one toke over the line

dithers

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:48 am

The politicians and MSM always have people looking at the glass half empty. Here's some positive headlines from this morning's Drudge Report.

Stocks Soar Most in Six Years... Dow up 400.

California home sales surge as prices plummet...

Pretty in Blonde

Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 3468

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