Has "that point" been reached?

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The Refugees Unleashed Forum Index -> Natalee Holloway Case Discussion

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Mallory

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:40 am

Re: Tangent time

Slickster wrote:

I'll take a bow.
Now don't black-ball me now.
I have to live there.

Roll Tide!
Cool

Slickster,
So you live in MB? Why don't you just ask all these people
whatever it is you want to know? How is one 'black-balled'
anyway?

Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1793

Need2Know

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:40 am

Slickster wrote:

Why I do declare, maybe Mountain Brook Alibamy will start talking sometime soon too.
Oh that's rite, nobody wants to be black balled from there.
Wink

You can run Thomas Twitty, but you can not hide!
Laughing

Gee, funny how the real and only professionals involved in all of this continue to disagree with you and all these MB consipiracy theories you all love to keep harping on. Guess who they know knows? Very Happy

Last edited by Need2Know on Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

Need2Know

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:42 am

Re: Tangent time

Slickster wrote:

Au Contraire, WoW.
They have not been sitting on their asses,
They have been COVERING THEIR ASSES on this board as well as others.
But alas, the time has come, for the truth.
Wink

Roll Tide,
Mountain Brook, Alabama!
Wanker

Your truth train sure is taking long to get here Very Happy

N2K

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277

K_Meine

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:28 am

Re: jossy mansur

WordsofWisdom wrote:

How rude.

It wasn't rude. It was a suggestion. If you're going to be here, then participate instead of just using others material.

Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1656

K_Meine

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:03 am

Re: Tangent time

WordsofWisdom wrote:

Integrity is THE most important human characteristic.
Nuff said.

"Similiar situation.... hmmm are you speaking of the 100+ students and the 'fill in the qty' chaperones? Because they have sat on their asses for 3 years and let this investigation go on without providing proper witness' statements. And don't EVEN try to say those statements that some of them gave were proper. The terms for those interviews were ridiculous, at best.

First of all I agree 100%. IMO integrity is unquestionably one of the most important characteristics a person can possess. Now that we are currently in agreement on values. I must say I find your choice of allegiance peculiar when you make such a statement about integrity. One could deduce by your choice of words and positions that you find Joran to be a person of integrity. Is that how you truly feel?

Excuse me while I'll go on a tangent for a second. I was having a political discussion the other day and I asked the person who they were voting for in the upcoming election. They said there choice and I asked why that choice. The response was well I'm voting more "anti" the one than "pro" the other. Idea

What is my point? You seem to possess more of an "anti Beth/MB" sentiment than a "Pro Joran" sentiment. This mentality seems to be somewhat prevalent. Joran could go on TV tomorrow and say "I did it, I did it, I did it and I'll show you where her remains are" and some would still divert it back to Beth and Mountain Brook. Why is that?

What is it about Mountain Brook and/or Beth that has made some so not necessarily "pro Joran" but more likely just "anti Beth/anti Twitty/anti Mountain Brook". I am truly interested in knowing. Shouldn't it be Pro Natalee?

Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1656

Slickster

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:35 am

Re: Tangent time

K_Meine wrote:

Prayer Meeting tag line of the Week.
Anti-Beth.
Wink

Roll Tide Mountain Brook Alabama!
Rolling Eyes

Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1631

K_Meine

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:15 am

Re: Tangent time

Slickster wrote:

Prayer Meeting tag line of the Week.
Anti-Beth.
Wink

Roll Tide Mountain Brook Alabama!
Rolling Eyes

Had you ever heard or met Natalee before this? You don't seem to fit the Mountain Brook mold. Maybe that's it...........

Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1656

WordsofWisdom

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:53 pm

Re: Tangent time

K_Meine wrote:

Holy mackeral!
A call for a civil discussion?
Excuse my sarcasm, I was just caught off guard by the apparent sincerity in really wanting to know my position without outright attacks on me....

I am neither "Pro Joran, nor Pro Natalee, nor am I anti Beth/MB. My position is so simple.... I am all about the protection of basic human rights, both man made laws as well as common decency. Beth ignored basic human decency and, even more disgusting, is that she did it on National Television Night after Night after Night.

Beth Holloway Twitty did not hesitate to demoralize humilate and devalue anyone and everyone that she deemed worthy- regardless of the truth. Her obvious sense of entitlement, arrogance, and "the end justifies the means" attitude goes against everything I stand for. The woman is a walking LIE.

I don't buy the opinions that Beth was GIVEN misinformation, because if that was the case, she has had plenty of time to apologize to those she hurt and harmed so deeply. Her book is one HUGE lie. Each and every sentence she wrote is contrary to what she has said before, and what we now know.

And NO excuse is reasonable for what she has done to innocent people. Even IF her daughter was a victim of a crime- that gives her no right to hurt the innocents the way she did. Especially the ones that sacrificed their own time, money, tears, and yes, sweat to help her. She effectively spit in their face. She is so ungrateful.

She is, undoubtedly the most repulsive person, to date, that I have ever run across.

There is more, but I will leave it that for now.

Athena

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 9471

WordsofWisdom

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Tangent time

K_Meine wrote:

Had you ever heard or met Natalee before this? You don't seem to fit the Mountain Brook mold. Maybe that's it...........

Now see... what would the "Mountain Brook mold" look like?

Athena

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 9471

Slickster

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:54 pm

Re: Tangent time

WordsofWisdom wrote:

Now see... what would the "Mountain Brook mold" look like?

Oh I know this mold so well,
btw.......I hate molds, Love individuality.
Mold:
Stepford wife, everyone follows 'protocol', 'it wasn't me'...didn't George Thorogood do a song like that?,
and ALWAYS look anywhere but your own when you belong to the 'Tiny Kingdom' of Mountain Brook, Alabama.
Buy your way out, wear tennis dresses, drive top notch vehicles, blacks are the 'hired help', they don't belong........
AND, last but not least.......always wear Ray Bans!
Cool

Light, Love and Balance makes the world go around.
Mountain Brook Alabama, only cares about Mountain Brook, Alabama.
The rest of the world does not exist unless we want to visit.
I love this place!
I can not believe that we have to defend the scum of Twittyville.
Rolling Eyes

Go ahead Twittyville,
let it rip.
Im ready.

Roll Tide!
Wanker

Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1631

WordsofWisdom

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:05 am

Re: Tangent time

K_Meine wrote:

I really don't get where you can deduce from my "choice of words and positions that I find Joran to be a person of integrity."

I hardly ever (if ever) even mention Joran in my posts other than to defend his right to be innocent of all charges until proven guilty. And I will continue to do that until he IS proven to be guilty. That has not happened.

We have heard, ad nauseum, "What if it were YOUR daughter." Well I am here to say, What if it were YOUR son? What if your juvenile son, regardless of the issues that he has, or his propensity to lie, or whatever else negative characteristic he had, (and so many teenagers DO have- including those found in MB Alabama) was accused on National Television of being a rapist, kidnapper, and murderer without a scintilla of evidence? All because a bunch of (rude) folks "thought" he did.

What if your child's (yes he was still a child in the eyes of the law) name and face was plastered all over the news- clearly in defiance of not only Aruba laws, but also the United State's laws. Just because that (rude) group of folks THOUGHT he did something to Natalee. And I am sure I do not need to remind you that after 3 years of this, there is STILL not enough evidence that there was a crime, let alone that Joran had anything to do with it.

Beth supposedly described Joran to a H.I. manager who supposedly instantly knew who he was. Well, I am here to tell you that the boy she described was not Joran. Joran did not have blond hair and blue eyes. Still doesn't.
But that was supposedly the basis for finding and accusing Joran. Everything else happened after that. But conveniently she denies ever saying it. Like she does everything else. Like the phone calls- they are now all "accidental calls". Baloney. My point is that she created her own reality with absolutely no facts to support it, and in the interim ruined a boys life. Forever. And that woman had no right to do that.

Even IF Joran was ultimately found guilty of a crime- she had no right to do what she did to him. It was illegal and immoral. And as we stand here today, there is no evidence that a crime even ocurred. Regardless of what people are TRYING to spin.

Last edited by WordsofWisdom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total

Athena

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 9471

WordsofWisdom

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Tangent time

K_Meine wrote:

I disagree.
Vehemently.

IF he confessed to a crime that he committed, then he should be punished appropriately as the law calls for.

My point entirely is that until that happens he is innocent and I will defend his rights to be innocent until found to be guilty. It really is that simple.

The spin coming from Mountain Brook Alabama is merely a sidebar in my book. I confront those lies because they are hypocritical. They protect their own children's rights and ignore Joran's right. Thats disgusting... and revealing.

Athena

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 9471

WordsofWisdom

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:15 am

Re: Tangent time

K_Meine wrote:

What is it about Mountain Brook and/or Beth that has made some so not necessarily "pro Joran" but more likely just "anti Beth/anti Twitty/anti Mountain Brook". I am truly interested in knowing. Shouldn't it be Pro Natalee?

Pro Natalee?

What does that mean?
At this point in time it is entirely possible that she is somewhere having a grand old time. Is there any proof otherwise? I think not.

Athena

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 9471

all10suspects

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:23 am

Re: Tangent time

WordsofWisdom wrote:

Pro Natalee?

What does that mean?
At this point in time it is entirely possible that she is somewhere having a grand old time. Is there any proof otherwise? I think not.

If Natalee is alive she is not the same as when she left to go to Aruba.
No way could Natalee use her name or anything that was hers. Hoping she could be alive is not a bad idea except of course when Paul know the first day Natalee will never be found!

Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 6356

WordsofWisdom

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:27 am

Re: Tangent time

all10suspects wrote:

If Natalee is alive she is not the same as when she left to go to Aruba.
No way could Natalee use her name or anything that was hers.

And that would be the fault of her own mother.

Athena

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 9471

resigned

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:38 am

Re: Tangent time

WordsofWisdom wrote:

Joran has a father and mother going that extra mile for him.

Click your heels together...

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28580
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk

K_Meine

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:21 am

Re: Tangent time

WordsofWisdom wrote:

K_Meine wrote:

Quote:

We have heard, ad nauseum

, "What if it were YOUR daughter." Well I am here to say, What if it were YOUR son? What if your juvenile son, regardless of the issues that he has, or his propensity to lie, or whatever else negative characteristic he had, (and so many teenagers DO have- including those found in MB Alabama) was accused on National Television of being a rapist, kidnapper, and murderer without a scintilla of evidence? All because a bunch of (rude) folks "thought" he did.

What if your child's (yes he was still a child in the eyes of the law) name and face was plastered all over the news- clearly in defiance of not only Aruba laws, but also the United State's laws. Just because that (rude) group of folks THOUGHT he did something to Natalee. And I am sure I do not need to remind you that after 3 years of this, there is STILL not enough evidence that there was a crime, let alone that Joran had anything to do with it.

Beth supposedly described Joran to a H.I. manager who supposedly instantly knew who he was. Well, I am here to tell you that the boy she described was not Joran. Joran did not have blond hair and blue eyes. Still doesn't.
But that was supposedly the basis for finding and accusing Joran. Everything else happened after that. But conveniently she denies ever saying it. Like she does everything else. Like the phone calls- they are now all "accidental calls". Baloney. My point is that she created her own reality with absolutely no facts to support it, and in the interim ruined a boys life. Forever. And that woman had no right to do that.

IF Joran was ultimately found guilty of a crime- she had no right to do what she did to him. It was illegal and immoral. And as we stand here today, there is no evidence that a crime even ocurred. Regardless of what people are TRYING to spin.

That is a very fair suggestion for all to contemplate if it applies to them. What if it was my son instead of Joran? As a parent myself, I am well versed in the challenges that children can present. I wouldn't want to walk ten feet in Paulus Van Der Sloot's shoes back then. Joran is quite obviously a "challenged" individual on a number of fronts but that does not release him from taking responsibility for his actions. If this situation involved my son, I would have sat him down and told him he must tell the truth and show the integrity we both agree is so important in personal makeup. Additionally, I would express my unwavering love and support of him as he traveled the road ahead.

This is where the issue starts. Now "everyone lies" and that is 100% true. However, in this sort of situation you only get one proverbial "get out of jail free card". Lying once, and only once, can almost be expected under such circumstances. This was the turning point that has kept many of us still here. Regardless of what the truth was or is, had he told it after the first lie of dropping her off at the HI. This would have been over ages ago.

Let's just say for arguments sake that Joran told the ALE or investigators what what he told Patrick within the first few days of Natalee's disappearance. Had he done so the chances of retrieving Natalee's body (yes, I am currently assuming and am aware of it) would have been far greater than they are today, yes? Me thinks this is why he continued to lie. He had no other reason to do so than to conceal and misinform. He chose to take the low road.

Now, does this ultimately mean he has given up his right to a "fair" trial and to have his civil rights infringed upon? No. What Beth did and has done was travel the "low road " as well. Unfortunately, I doubt the outcome would have been much different had she just sat back and watched. There is no shortages of lesson's to be learned here and one in particular comes to mind. In the words of Crosby, Still, Nash & Young "Teach your children well".

Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1656

Mallory

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:56 am

Beth did not tell the HI manager the BEDB story as that was not fabricated until much later by one of those Aruban taxi drivers.

She described Joran van der Sloot to the HI manager as relayed to her by those who saw Natalee in his company last.

Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1793

Gregor

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:33 am

Re: Tangent time

WordsofWisdom wrote:

K_Meine wrote:

Excellent post!!!!

But as for this quote, "Just because that (rude) group of folks THOUGHT he did something to Natalee," I'm not so sure anyone actually thought he did anything to Natalee.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1847

Gregor

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:35 am

Re: Tangent time

resigned wrote:

Joran has a father and mother going that extra mile for him.

So that validates Beth's words and actions?

In what civilized society?

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1847

all10suspects

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:39 am

Re: Tangent time

Gregor wrote:

So that validates Beth's words and actions?

In what civilized society?

In any civilized society that a kid goes missing. That family has a right
to answers. Espeically if they find the people that were with the missing kid. Just what exactly did Beth do wrong if she was with the ALE that morning looking for her kid?

Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 6356

Gregor

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:42 am

Re: Tangent time

K_Meine wrote:

<snip>

This is where the issue starts. Now "everyone lies" and that is 100% true. However, in this sort of situation you only get one proverbial "get out of jail free card". Lying once, and only once, can almost be expected under such circumstances. This was the turning point that has kept many of us still here. Regardless of what the truth was or is, had he told it after the first lie of dropping her off at the HI. This would have been over ages ago.

<snip>

It appears you want Joran to tell what you believe to be, or want to be, the truth, not what the truth actually is.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1847

billybob

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:56 am

Re: Tangent time

Gregor wrote:

It appears you want Joran to tell what you believe to be, or want to be, the truth, not what the truth actually is.

this is what they all want Gregor - but what IF ... Joran does not know ... what then? should he just make stuff up? Hmmmm well he already did that!

Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2855

Isanah

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:29 pm

Talking about beating a dead horse..........Whatever will be, will be....Que Sera Sera! Laughing

As Pax would say: Check out the front page.

We need all of you to keep this site more interesting!

Excuse the interruption of this program. This was a public service announcement! Laughing

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 8047

cajun_mali

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Tangent time

billybob wrote:

this is what they all want Gregor - but what IF ... Joran does not know ... what then? should he just make stuff up? Hmmmm well he already did that!

Don't forget he has to manufacture evidence ..

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 774

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