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K_Meine
 Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:17 am |
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Has "that point" been reached?
It is said that sometimes a situation can reach "a point of no return". When a fabrication, a lie or story has been told so many times and for so long that turning back now seems impossible. I wonder if Joran and any of his assistants (yes, I am) ever think about it that way and could anyone ever convince him/them otherwise?
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Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| sarge
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:23 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| K_Meine wrote: | | It is said that sometimes a situation can reach "a point of no return". When a fabrication, a lie or story has been told so many times and for so long that turning back now seems impossible. I wonder if Joran and any of his assistants (yes, I am) ever think about it that way and could anyone ever convince him/them otherwise? |
Point been reached? I think so. They have gotten away with disposing of Natalee's body for way over 3 yrs now. There is no reason that he or anyone else who was there to ever tell anyone at this point. I would love to know what their lawyers really think, especially Joran's. I think the Kalpoe atty would love to tell some things but won't.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: georgia
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:30 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| K_Meine wrote: | | It is said that sometimes a situation can reach "a point of no return". When a fabrication, a lie or story has been told so many times and for so long that turning back now seems impossible. I wonder if Joran and any of his assistants (yes, I am) ever think about it that way and could anyone ever convince him/them otherwise? |
I'm not sure I understand your post as it pertains to Joran and some phantom assistants, but there's no doubt Beth reached that point quite some time ago.
Her recent silence is an indication to me that she wishes the whole thing will go away before anyone remembers to start asking her some probative questions.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| cajun_mali
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:34 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
Well, there are still 2 stories that conflict.
But discussing this requires me to agree with your assumptions, which I won't until you have better facts to support them.
| K_Meine wrote: | | It is said that sometimes a situation can reach "a point of no return". When a fabrication, a lie or story has been told so many times and for so long that turning back now seems impossible. I wonder if Joran and any of his assistants (yes, I am) ever think about it that way and could anyone ever convince him/them otherwise? |
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Joined: 24 May 2007
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
I'm not sure I understand your post as it pertains to Joran and some phantom assistants, but there's no doubt Beth reached that point quite some time ago.
Her recent silence is an indication to me that she wishes the whole thing will go away before anyone remembers to start asking her some probative questions. |
WARNING !!!! WARNING !!!!
A deflection from the subject of "JORAN" has been detected. Please focus and return to the topic at once. Thank you.
The Topic Cops 
And Gregor, I think her silence is due more to her collagen injections than anything else. She'll be back once the swelling goes down. 
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Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:44 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| K_Meine wrote: |
WARNING !!!! WARNING !!!!
A deflection from the subject of "JORAN" has been detected. Please focus and return to the topic at once. Thank you.
The Topic Cops :lol:
And Gregor, I think her silence is due more to her collagen injections than anything else. She'll be back once the swelling goes down. :tup: |
Perhaps if you had made your post a little clearer, I could have made a response with which you'd be happier.
I doubt it, but it's theoretically possible.
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| Elaine S
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:53 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
I'm not sure I understand your post as it pertains to Joran and some phantom assistants, but there's no doubt Beth reached that point quite some time ago.
Her recent silence is an indication to me that she wishes the whole thing will go away before anyone remembers to start asking her some probative questions. |
It's always interesting how, when we speak of Joran, there's always a comparison to Beth, and what she has or hasn't done. If she talks, that's no good ~ if she's silent, that's no good either.
Why does it always revert back to Beth?? It's like one upsmanship!
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Eline
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 5063
Location: Pennsylvania
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| sarge
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:03 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
I'm not sure I understand your post as it pertains to Joran and some phantom assistants, but there's no doubt Beth reached that point quite some time ago.
Her recent silence is an indication to me that she wishes the whole thing will go away before anyone remembers to start asking her some probative questions. |
Yeah, right. She probably sent her daughter to Aruba for an arranged disappearance.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:20 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Elaine S wrote: |
It's always interesting how, when we speak of Joran, there's always a comparison to Beth, and what she has or hasn't done. If she talks, that's no good ~ if she's silent, that's no good either.
Why does it always revert back to Beth?? It's like one upsmanship! |
It reverts to Beth because it's all about Beth.
Who told all the lies about Joran? Who started all the rumors, most of which have been debunked, about Joran? Who has impeded and tried to control the investigation into the disappearance of her daughter? Who, after more than three years, still can't get her story straight? Who has been involved in promoting, and probably producing, bogus evidence?
Sorry, but it's all about Beth.
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:24 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| sarge wrote: |
Yeah, right. She probably sent her daughter to Aruba for an arranged disappearance. |
You could be closer to the truth than you think.
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| billybob
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:32 am |
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I would like to know who these "assistants," might be?
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| AC
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:32 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
You could be closer to the truth than you think. |
Renee, is that you?
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:35 am |
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| billybob wrote: | | I would like to know who these "assistants," might be? |
Hmmm. Professionals? Lawyers? Friends? Family? I am unclear too. 
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Kentucky
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| Elaine S
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:38 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
It reverts to Beth because it's all about Beth.
Who told all the lies about Joran? Who started all the rumors, most of which have been debunked, about Joran? Who has impeded and tried to control the investigation into the disappearance of her daughter? Who, after more than three years, still can't get her story straight? Who has been involved in promoting, and probably producing, bogus evidence?
Sorry, but it's all about Beth. |
I beg to disagree ~ it's all about Natalee. By the way, which rumors pertaining to Joran have been debunked? Who has impeded the investigation? Hands down, Joran. He has yet to tell the same story twice about the night Natalee was last seen getting into a car with him, Satish and Deepak never to be seen again. And, unless you think ALE and KLPD are completely incompetent, there has never been a question that it was indeed Natalee who was with them.
Beth has long since stopped running this investigation, and yet ~ ALE and the prosecutor's office continually believe, by extending Joran's suspect status, that he, in some way, knows more about what happened that fateful night.
Joran is no longer that "scared" 17 year old "kid" who lied. He's now a young man who lies, and has yet to tell the same story twice. I look forward to hearing more from him. There's no question in my mind that more interviews will surface, and in the future more interviews will come from him.
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Eline
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: Pennsylvania
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| sarge
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:47 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
You could be closer to the truth than you think. |
No doubt from your perspective.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: georgia
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:51 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
It reverts to Beth because it's all about Beth.
Who told all the lies about Joran? Who started all the rumors, most of which have been debunked, about Joran? Who has impeded and tried to control the investigation into the disappearance of her daughter? Who, after more than three years, still can't get her story straight? Who has been involved in promoting, and probably producing, bogus evidence?
Sorry, but it's all about Beth. |
OK, OK. How about if we promise to talk about Beth after we're done with Joran?
The fact is we wouldn't have been subjected to Beth if Joran had just sacked up in the beginning and told what really happened. In this ongoing "what came first, the egg or the chicken?" debacle. Joran clearly came first and is therefore currently the topic of this particular conversation.
Joran willingly chose to elongate this case by lying and offering multiple unsubstantiated renditions of what occurred that evening. There is no way of denying that happened. He has single handedly made himself the most guilty looking non-innocent person on the planet. It defies logic yet some want to give him a free pass? Sure Beth has said plenty and most of it rubbish. But why offer Joran a "get out of free jail card" for what he has said and not Beth.
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:58 am |
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| billybob wrote: | | I would like to know who these "assistants," might be? |
Let me start by saying the (Yes, I am) insert meant Yes I am ASSuming. I find it difficult to believe, although not impossible, that Joran was not assisted in some way. Although, the fact that no one has "rolled over on him" yet could make me consider otherwise.
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Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| sarge
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:04 am |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| AC wrote: |
Renee, is that you? |
lol
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| billybob
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:49 am |
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| K_Meine wrote: |
Let me start by saying the (Yes, I am) insert meant Yes I am ASSuming. I find it difficult to believe, although not impossible, that Joran was not assisted in some way. Although, the fact that no one has "rolled over on him" yet could make me consider otherwise. |
Well it is my very strong belief, based on what I know about all these possible "assistants," that none of them assisted! The only one I might leave out of the, for sure mix, would be Guido! So that for me leaves a young 17 year old implementing the perfect disappearing act of one 18 year old girl - and that seems very inlikely.
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:44 pm |
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| billybob wrote: |
Well it is my very strong belief, based on what I know about all these possible "assistants," that none of them assisted! The only one I might leave out of the, for sure mix, would be Guido! So that for me leaves a young 17 year old implementing the perfect disappearing act of one 18 year old girl - and that seems very inlikely. |
Therein lies an issue. What you purport to know is heavily biased due to the relationships you elected to participate in with The Van Der Sloot's. I'm sure the VDS's are lovely people but that doesn't make them individually or group wise incapable of assisting or covering up said event. Anita is certainly off the hook since she wasn't there. Other than her, ANY other member of that family could have knowingly or unknowingly assisted Joran's efforts. Now add a lack of timely searches, permissions to search all of the grounds, the inconsistent "watching" of Joran in the hours and days to follow and a somewhat lackadaisical attitude in general and it gives the appearance that Joran was "assisted" in some way.
Until we know for certain what happened, we can't be certain in totality. Therefore, anything and everything is possible.
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:45 pm |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Elaine S wrote: |
I beg to disagree ~ it's all about Natalee. By the way, which rumors pertaining to Joran have been debunked? Who has impeded the investigation? Hands down, Joran. He has yet to tell the same story twice about the night Natalee was last seen getting into a car with him, Satish and Deepak never to be seen again. And, unless you think ALE and KLPD are completely incompetent, there has never been a question that it was indeed Natalee who was with them.
Beth has long since stopped running this investigation, and yet ~ ALE and the prosecutor's office continually believe, by extending Joran's suspect status, that he, in some way, knows more about what happened that fateful night.
Joran is no longer that "scared" 17 year old "kid" who lied. He's now a young man who lies, and has yet to tell the same story twice. I look forward to hearing more from him. There's no question in my mind that more interviews will surface, and in the future more interviews will come from him. |
You've been in on some of the discussions about the bogus rumors. If you've forgotten, just read back.
Exactly who, among those who knew Natalee, saw her get into Deepak's car?
Beth's a mature woman who after more than three years can't tell the same story twice. Don't you find that odd?
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:46 pm |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| Gregor wrote: |
Perhaps if you had made your post a little clearer, I could have made a response with which you'd be happier.
I doubt it, but it's theoretically possible. |
I apologize. I'll type slower from now on.
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:46 pm |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| sarge wrote: |
No doubt from your perspective. |
I certainly wouldn't post from anyone else's perspective, would you?
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:50 pm |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| K_Meine wrote: |
<snip>
The fact is we wouldn't have been subjected to Beth if Joran had just sacked up in the beginning and told what really happened,
<snip> |
No matter what Joran ever said we'd be exactly where we are now. Beth and Jossy need someone to go to jail and the investigation to end.
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| Gregor
Posted:
Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:52 pm |
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Re: Has "that point" been reached?
| K_Mine wrote: |
I apologize. I'll type slower from now on. |
Actually, that could help.
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