| Has everyone excluded any wrong doing by 2k in this case? - Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next |
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liesbeth
 Posted:
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:03 am |
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Last edited by liesbeth on Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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| Rolls
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:28 am |
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| K_Meine wrote: |
Considering that doesn't verify "who" was in possession of said mobile devices and triangulation is not 100% accurate in determining location. That data could be construed as being as useless as tits on a bull.
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Sure. But here is something else to consider. We know where everyone was around 0130 - going "woo woo" at the bus station, right?
Now everything goes dark.
But only 30 mins later, 0200, someone logging in as Deepak lights up over in Hooiberg, and stays lit up in the ISP records for quite some time. Then there is the 8 min cellcall from Joran to Deepak.
(It beats me why you and others take an idiological stance on the accuracy of positioning of Joran's call because being at the huts places him central to the action. It incidentally places Deepak some miles away, where he has been for some time according to his ISP. This positioning is not subject to any significant error and gives us a valuable clue to Natalee Holloway's last whereabouts.)
You can ignore this data. Or you can try and create some scenario which explains why these records look like one thing, but are actually something else, which is consistant.
It's easy to imagine more complex movements, add landline phone calls, &c, &c, but it is a lot harder to explain why these complications.
If we presume that these records are a true reflection of what happened, then they put the spotlight squarely on Joran, and Joran alone.
-Rolls
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007
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Location: Australia
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| WordsofWisdom
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:58 am |
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Re: Has everyone excluded any wrong doing by 2k in this case
| GEL wrote: | I ask because most I read here from posters that they seem 2K are innocent of everythging except giving Joran a friendly ride so he could show NH a good time (yeah right), porn movies etc.
Why did they go? Why did it take both 2K to be there? Surely they were looking for more than a ride, a little converstation, since this was after midnight and a school night for J & S no less.
IMO, they were expecting more and may have got it...Why do they keep lying when the truth could've bee told long ago and saved all this for both families and the expence that all had to endure/
What is the real reason and truth?
eta-sorry for the typos |
Simple answers, really.
It could have been someone else, because Joran did call someone else for a ride, but Deepak was the first that agreed to go. The criteria for Joran was someone with a car. Deepak had a car, agreed to go- it was that simple.
As for why they are silent....that is also simple.
They are in the middle of a huge civil case.
Dr. Phool has only one defense for editing those tapes- and that is that the boys were public figures. (Notice he doesn't deny editing the tapes- just that it was ok because K2 were public figures and therefore had 30 days to ask for a retraction/apology- IIRC). Therefore, speaking publicly about the case would only add credence to Dr, Phool's defense. (as lame as it is.)
It would be counterproductive for K2 to say a single word, as it "could" cost them a lot of money at the negotiation table.
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Athena
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| dugo
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:14 am |
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| liesbeth wrote: |
It happened before in Holland, that people who were made a suspect, did not speak in that same media, in order not to obstruct the investigation.  |
by choice
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Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Location: L4L
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| billybob
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:23 am |
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| Rolls wrote: | | K_Meine wrote: |
Considering that doesn't verify "who" was in possession of said mobile devices and triangulation is not 100% accurate in determining location. That data could be construed as being as useless as tits on a bull.
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Sure. But here is something else to consider. We know where everyone was around 0130 - going "woo woo" at the bus station, right?
Now everything goes dark.
But only 30 mins later, 0200, someone logging in as Deepak lights up over in Hooiberg, and stays lit up in the ISP records for quite some time. Then there is the 8 min cellcall from Joran to Deepak.
(It beats me why you and others take an idiological stance on the accuracy of positioning of Joran's call because being at the huts places him central to the action. It incidentally places Deepak some miles away, where he has been for some time according to his ISP. This positioning is not subject to any significant error and gives us a valuable clue to Natalee Holloway's last whereabouts.)
You can ignore this data. Or you can try and create some scenario which explains why these records look like one thing, but are actually something else, which is consistant.
It's easy to imagine more complex movements, add landline phone calls, &c, &c, but it is a lot harder to explain why these complications.
If we presume that these records are a true reflection of what happened, then they put the spotlight squarely on Joran, and Joran alone.
-Rolls |
Rolls has always made much sense when it comes to the cell phone data. Not sure why so many refuse to consider that the man knows what he is talking about. And that this very data is why 3 young men walk free today.
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| liesbeth
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:43 am |
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Last edited by liesbeth on Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:53 am |
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| billybob wrote: |
Rolls has always made much sense when it comes to the cell phone data. Not sure why so many refuse to consider that the man knows what he is talking about. And that this very data is why 3 young men walk free today. |
http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/nhf/member.telpacific.com.au/rolyroper/NataleeHolloway/
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beady eyed rat
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
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Location: nowhere man
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| luvslalom
Posted:
Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:15 am |
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| billybob wrote: |
Rolls has always made much sense when it comes to the cell phone data. Not sure why so many refuse to consider that the man knows what he is talking about. And that this very data is why 3 young men walk free today. |
Rolls wrote:
| Quote: | | positioning of Joran's call because being at the huts places him central to the action. It incidentally places Deepak some miles away, where he has been for some time according to his ISP. |
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Location: hamster...damn
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| Rolls
Posted:
Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:12 pm |
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It's a Monkey's Trap, a real bind for those who have so much invested in the presumed guilt of all and sundry and the stupidity of compound theories which couldn't even be carried out using the Tardis. If we took all10's rich trove of theories and placed them end to end they'd all point in different directions.
This is Beth's formal statement of claim in the NY filing;
But from the moment the cellphone and ISP records came out Beth's Scenario was blowing smoke.
As an "alibi" these records are two-edged, they locate Joran at the critical place at the critical time, and they place Deepak (and by implication Satish) right off the stage altogether.
They provide a picture of Deepak sitting at home, in continual communication with Joran as he walks home from where he has parted with Natalee.
It's the (aptly named) Monkey's Grip, what's bad for Joran is good for Deepak. [Pay Up Dr Pil!]
{what strikes me as odd about the "not at the beach" crowd is that for all this seems to strengthen a case against 2K, unca Tom Cobbly an' all, it actually doesn't until the records are shown to be false or misleading, and it weakens the evidential case against Joran. You guys should have played the orginal DEC "Zork" - you always had to give something up to gain something of greater value}
"It" happened sometime between about 1 and 3am, somewhere around the huts. 2K were already at home, and Joran was either there, or already walking home. By 3am "It" was all over, finished. Natalee had departed by sea.
Whatever the missing bit is in there, you can bet that it's going to be pretty bog-simple, but all the cards are still in the deck (or mine, at least).
-Rolls
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:48 pm |
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| liesbeth wrote: |
Like the Kalpoe brothers continued the HI lie. 
By choice.  |
The Kalpoes didn't continue the HI lie nearly as long as the MB kiddies lied about the 'responsible drinking" of Natalee.
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:59 pm |
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| Rolls wrote: | It's a Monkey's Trap, a real bind for those who have so much invested in the presumed guilt of all and sundry and the stupidity of compound theories which couldn't even be carried out using the Tardis. If we took all10's rich trove of theories and placed them end to end they'd all point in different directions.
This is Beth's formal statement of claim in the NY filing;
But from the moment the cellphone and ISP records came out Beth's Scenario was blowing smoke.
As an "alibi" these records are two-edged, they locate Joran at the critical place at the critical time, and they place Deepak (and by implication Satish) right off the stage altogether.
They provide a picture of Deepak sitting at home, in continual communication with Joran as he walks home from where he has parted with Natalee.
It's the (aptly named) Monkey's Grip, what's bad for Joran is good for Deepak. [Pay Up Dr Pil!]
{what strikes me as odd about the "not at the beach" crowd is that for all this seems to strengthen a case against 2K, unca Tom Cobbly an' all, it actually doesn't until the records are shown to be false or misleading, and it weakens the evidential case against Joran. You guys should have played the orginal DEC "Zork" - you always had to give something up to gain something of greater value}
"It" happened sometime between about 1 and 3am, somewhere around the huts. 2K were already at home, and Joran was either there, or already walking home. By 3am "It" was all over, finished. Natalee had departed by sea.
Whatever the missing bit is in there, you can bet that it's going to be pretty bog-simple, but all the cards are still in the deck (or mine, at least).
I'd like to add and hope Jan will add to her book, that it is patently absurd for beth to even suggest natalee was not acting with free will, as some of her friends stated Natalee tried to get them to go with her and Joran but they refused. Natalee clearly wanted something from Joran. Drugs or sex or perhaps both. But the real evidence supports Joran did not harm Natalee, yet beth was so insistent and obsessed with Natalee's crotch being the heart of the matter, such that one must question the woman's sanity.
-Rolls |
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| minitess
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:43 am |
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| Rolls wrote: | | K_Meine wrote: |
Considering that doesn't verify "who" was in possession of said mobile devices and triangulation is not 100% accurate in determining location. That data could be construed as being as useless as tits on a bull.
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Sure. But here is something else to consider. We know where everyone was around 0130 - going "woo woo" at the bus station, right?
Now everything goes dark.
But only 30 mins later, 0200, someone logging in as Deepak lights up over in Hooiberg, and stays lit up in the ISP records for quite some time. Then there is the 8 min cellcall from Joran to Deepak.
(It beats me why you and others take an idiological stance on the accuracy of positioning of Joran's call because being at the huts places him central to the action. It incidentally places Deepak some miles away, where he has been for some time according to his ISP. This positioning is not subject to any significant error and gives us a valuable clue to Natalee Holloway's last whereabouts.)
You can ignore this data. Or you can try and create some scenario which explains why these records look like one thing, but are actually something else, which is consistant.
It's easy to imagine more complex movements, add landline phone calls, &c, &c, but it is a lot harder to explain why these complications.
If we presume that these records are a true reflection of what happened, then they put the spotlight squarely on Joran, and Joran alone.
-Rolls |
There are two pieces that you've either forgotten, or deliberately ignored in putting together your hypothesis.
When the boys were seen in Deepak's car at the pond near the racquet club - the witness could only identify Deepak and Joran. Couldn't identify Satish as the 3rd person in the vehicle.
So that leaves the possibility of Satish being at home on the computer - while his brother is still with Joran.
Combine that with what Dilma said on O'Reilly about the cell's being tracked - and you've got Deepak out of the home after 2:30 am.
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| minitess
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:47 am |
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| sarge wrote: | | I too still have doubts. I would love to see the Kalpoes reveal exactly what they do know and be able to accept a plea deal for it. I know that is not an option. |
It could be by the end of this year. GBMW posted this translation of an Aruban newspaper article earlier this month:
ORANJESTAD - Special investigative powers as infiltration and
the deployment of a witness by investigators will be allowed from
September on the Dutch Antilles and Aruba. There is still
no law on adoption, but with the publication of a directive
in the Landscourant of the countries LE has already taken an advance
at that.
Especially the Public Prosecutor (OM) in Aruba was in a hurry
to get disclosure of the directive. A judge recently shared many
reduced sentences to members of a major in drugs gang
the so-called Dominocase. This happened because during the investigation
investigative methods were used that were not previously
divulged.
"Time and again we get a box on the ears of the
court because certain legal means are missing
the Aruban Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos said after the ruling.
The text of the directive is for Aruba and the Antilles.
On Curacao, a judge has already accepted a special
accepted detection method this year because LE had made public
that the new legislation was coming. The use of the
powers meet the kenbaarheidscriteria (publication).
It is expected that the legislation will be in force at the end of this year.
The use of the witness will be under imposement of strict conditions like in the Netherlands.
They are suspects or convicted people who make a witness statement in exhange, for example, a lower punishment. a lower to make a witness in exchange for, by example, a lower punishment by the LE.
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:52 am |
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As far as violent or knowingly scandalous or deceitful wrongdoing, I do not suspect the Kalpoes. In other words, I do not believe they intentionally threw the investigation off balance for the sake of saving themselves. I once had suspicion but, for good reason, I do not anymore. I do not believe they harmed Natalee.
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Kentucky
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| AC
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:56 am |
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| Obscuregawdess wrote: | | As far as violent or knowingly scandalous or deceitful wrongdoing, I do not suspect the Kalpoes. In other words, I do not believe they intentionally threw the investigation off balance for the sake of saving themselves. I once had suspicion but, for good reason, I do not anymore. I do not believe they harmed Natalee. |
OG, I tend to agree. Somehow, I think K2 were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Got caught up into something that they didn't have much control over.....especially since they could have been deported (if I remember that correctly) and Joran's Dad was a Judge. I think they might have thought they needed to watch their step.
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| Gregor
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:29 am |
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| minitess wrote: | | sarge wrote: | | I too still have doubts. I would love to see the Kalpoes reveal exactly what they do know and be able to accept a plea deal for it. I know that is not an option. |
<snip>
The use of the witness will be under imposement of strict conditions like in the Netherlands.
They are suspects or convicted people who make a witness statement in exhange, for example, a lower punishment. a lower to make a witness in exchange for, by example, a lower punishment by the LE. |
The Kalpoes are no longer suspects, are they?
But I'll bet there are people here who think they should be arrested on some trumped up charges so that ALE could apply some pressure on them.
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| all10suspects
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:41 am |
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If Deepak did not do anything but drop Natalee and Joran at the beach then how come Deepak was with Joran again Monday night from 11am
until 3am? Deepak had so much fun the night before he just had to see
Joran again!
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| all10suspects
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:41 am |
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If Deepak did not do anything but drop Natalee and Joran at the beach then how come Deepak was with Joran again Monday night from 11am
until 3am? Deepak had so much fun the night before he just had to see
Joran again!
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| minitess
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:41 am |
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| Gregor wrote: |
The Kalpoes are no longer suspects, are they?
But I'll bet there are people here who think they should be arrested on some trumped up charges so that ALE could apply some pressure on them. |
Yes, they are still suspects. Mos told us last .........November I think it was, that the JUDGE stated there was enough evidence to charge 2K with obstruction of justice, tampering with evidence up to and including body disposal.
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| Gregor
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:20 am |
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| minitess wrote: |
Yes, they are still suspects. Mos told us last .........November I think it was, that the JUDGE stated there was enough evidence to charge 2K with obstruction of justice, tampering with evidence up to and including body disposal. |
I thought Joran was the only suspect.
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| Sultan
Posted:
Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:40 am |
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Well, Joran stated that they didn't know anything. That's worth about as much as a beer can in mountain brook.
Although, I do tend to believe Joran did what ever he did to her without K2s help. K2 would have spilled the beans if they were guilty of doing anything to Natalee. They were under some extreme pressure to nail Joran and they knew nothing to nail him with.
Steve Croes has always bothered me though. Why do what he did?
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Swinging the Ladies
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:46 pm |
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| Sultan wrote: | Well, Joran stated that they didn't know anything. That's worth about as much as a beer can in mountain brook.
Although, I do tend to believe Joran did what ever he did to her without K2s help. K2 would have spilled the beans if they were guilty of doing anything to Natalee. They were under some extreme pressure to nail Joran and they knew nothing to nail him with.
Steve Croes has always bothered me though. Why do what he did? |
Friendship? Gangsta's watch each others backs.......that and he's about as sharp as a stake...T-bone that is. 
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| liesbeth
Posted:
Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:14 am |
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Last edited by liesbeth on Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| liesbeth
Posted:
Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:30 am |
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Last edited by liesbeth on Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| resigned
Posted:
Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:37 am |
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| Quote: | The Kalpoe brothers were previously jailed in the case, but were rearrested last week and charged with being involved in the "voluntary manslaughter" of Holloway.
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.
But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.
"Apparently, the judge sees a difference between the third suspect and these two suspects," Mos said, since the judge concluded the evidence against the Kalpoes was not strong enough to warrant their continued detention. |
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html
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Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
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