| How would they have handled Natalee's disappearance where .. - Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next |
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billybob
 Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:23 am |
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| WangChung wrote: |
It's a pleasure to read information being provided by someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Kudos to you and your husband.  |
It helps to have that kind of clarity on this thread -I agree cudos to both!!!
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007
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| Hannie
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:58 am |
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Re: what is the dutch equivalent of miranda?
| iquitos wrote: | | i imagine any time they take a formal statement they have to tell people it can be used and they are not obligated to incriminate themselves. |
It's called a 'caution' ( cautie ) here, iquitos, and it's the equivalent of the miranda warning.
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li'l Shango's Mommy
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
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| petals
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:20 am |
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| Linda in L.A. wrote: | | petals wrote: |
Once again, I had to consult with my husband the attorney. He strongly disagrees with the first part of the statement you quoted (that Miranda does not apply to statements a person makes before they are arrested). According to him, Miranda has nothing to do with being arrested; it is read to people prior to taking statements, whether they have been arrested or not. It only affects the admissibility of statements. If a statement is taken from a "person of interest" who is then later arrested, the cops had better hope that they Mirandized the P of A prior to taking his statement or that statement will be useless in a Court of Law.
As for spontaneous statements or statements made after Miranda rights are read, well, duh. A person can always waive their rights and talk freely to the police without an attorney present. They can even incriminate themselves if they so choose.
Back to the topic of thread, if everything else were the same but the case happened in the States instead of Aruba, I doubt that anybody would have spent any time in custody. |
No problem with your husband the attorney strongly disagreeing with me...but he might want to look into that first part a bit better. |
Maybe you should re-read Prolific's earlier post (the one where she posted an internet definition of Miranda). It clearly and correctly states that there is no requirement that a person be arrested first before Miranda rights are read.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:22 am |
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i think in the us they would have concentrated on finding
a body, if they suspected there was one. i don't think they would have spent a lot of time trying to get someone to confess. seems like the arubans put all their hopes on someone telling them what happened. i don't think le in the us would have taken well to the vigilante investigation either. except perhaps in mountain brook if mcwane et al were involved.
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Joined: 26 Mar 2006
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Location: in my mind's eye
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:58 am |
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| petals wrote: |
Maybe you should re-read Prolific's earlier post (the one where she posted an internet definition of Miranda). It clearly and correctly states that there is no requirement that a person be arrested first before Miranda rights are read. |
I think that the key word is custody and that doesn't need to even mean handcuffs but I think that the reading of the Miranda rights is generally a lead up to a charge/arrest. If a person is being asked questions and is not realllly free to tell the cops to go play in the street and get up and leave, then a Miranda reading would be in order even if the person hadn't yet been charged.
To me, it doesn't really matter what would happen in the US because it didn't happen in the US. It happened in Aruba with different laws and different procedures.
America is a large country. What cops would do in Poughkeepsie and what cops might do in Boston or NY may be quite different. If US law provided for detention on mere suspicion, I believe that some US cops would have detained them once there was an inconsistency in their statements, but US law does not provide for jailing on mere suspicion so the point is really moot. Is it not?
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| Black-Tulip
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:43 am |
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I don't agree, it does matter because the belief of the family and their supporters is that it's because of the Aruban laws that Joran is still a free person. That in the US he would be convicted.
It's clear their blaming of the Aruban justice system isn't justified.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:55 am |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: | I don't agree, it does matter because the belief of the family and their supporters is that it's because of the Aruban laws that Joran is still a free person. That in the US he would be convicted.
It's clear their blaming of the Aruban justice system isn't justified. |
I have never heard Beth or even Jug make any statement that if Joran had been in the US that he would have been convicted. I do agree with you that blaming the Aruban justice system is not right.
BT, my take on what the Twittys have said is that the ALE did not handle the case properly in the investigative phase and that Joran because of his Dad's profession was given preferential treatment.
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| WangChung
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:00 am |
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Re: i think in the us they would have concentrated on findin
| iquitos wrote: | | i don't think le in the us would have taken well to the vigilante investigation either. except perhaps in mountain brook if mcwane et al were involved. |
The drunken posse would have had their heads blown off with a 12 gauge shotgun if they'd pulled that stunt in a (U.S.) state that has a "home is castle" firearms law on the books. Loudmouth Jug, Lying Beth and Special FBI Agent Bearman would have also been in for a special surprise had they yelled "You Detroit assholes!!" ...... in the middle of downtown Detroit at two in the morning. As it was they just yelled "You Aruban assholes!" 
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Everybody Have Fun Tonight
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Hannie
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:02 am |
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If Joran was given so called 'preferential' treatment, I doubt he would have spent a minute in jail let alone a couple of months, same goes for Paul...
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li'l Shango's Mommy
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
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| billybob
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:15 am |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: | I don't agree, it does matter because the belief of the family and their supporters is that it's because of the Aruban laws that Joran is still a free person. That in the US he would be convicted.
It's clear their blaming of the Aruban justice system isn't justified. |
Yes exactly and I contend that in the U.S. it would have been handled much differently and the boys would not have spent one day in jail let alone be convicted of anything. Aruban law to me was much harsher for someone that there has not been any evidence of anything and to spend 3 months in jail and again in 2007, very strong system. With all the legal things in place in the States it would never have happened.
Tulip is correct!
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| petals
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:21 am |
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| yankee-in-france wrote: |
I have never heard Beth or even Jug make any statement that if Joran had been in the US that he would have been convicted. I do agree with you that blaming the Aruban justice system is not right.
BT, my take on what the Twittys have said is that the ALE did not handle the case properly in the investigative phase and that Joran because of his Dad's profession was given preferential treatment. |
I agree that this is what the family thought. In my opinion, the family was wrong. I agree with BT, Hannie and Billybob on this point. Joran did not benefit one bit from preferential treatment. I also agree with Rep. Spencer Bachus; the Aruban investigation was both professional and thorough.
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| WangChung
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:29 am |
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| petals wrote: |
I also agree with Rep. Spencer Bachus; the Aruban investigation was both professional and thorough. |
So why, when her own homeboy Spencer AND the FBI both reached the same conclusion, doesn't Beth look in her own back yard? I guess an Evil Aruban Bogeyman plays better on Greta and fills the face lift coffers faster. 
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Everybody Have Fun Tonight
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| prolific
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:39 am |
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Yes thorough and professional, we've heard how spent 40% of their budget trying to solve the case, FBI has been involved since day one and saw entire case file, Dutch investigators involved and saw entire case file, KLPD complete review of entire case file and guess what? Joran was and is the prime suspect in the disappearance of a human being.
Or is this where it's now ok to bash them and call them among other things:
Tunnelvisioned....refused to look elsewhere where the 'real' truth lies....Mos is just an asshole....heads of the investigation don't even know what was in the files even being in charge of the case for years.....just caved to the demands of the nasty mother..... ignored what was in the files all along that would have cleared the suspect and charged/convicted MBers, Beth and even natalee herself.
Or:
Due to Jug's long fingers, the US govt and the FBI are involved in a coverup to protect the nasty mother and MBers.....the FBI hindered the investigation.
I know the 'real' truth...answers are all in Alabammy.
Last edited by prolific on Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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| hemchi
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:42 am |
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A "system" is only as strong as those running it. How is the investigation into v/d Straten progressing? I know the OM told us to be patient - but its been a while.
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| luvslalom
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:46 am |
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Sooooooo, there must be another airing on JOran coming up soon? 
Somewhere along the way I read this:
| Quote: | | The drunken posse would have had their heads blown off with a 12 gauge shotgun if they'd pulled that stunt in a (U.S.) state that has a "home is castle" firearms law on the books. |
Free speech. 
Last edited by luvslalom on Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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| luvslalom
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:48 am |
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| prolific wrote: | Yes thorough and professional, we've heard how spent 40% of their budget trying to solve the case, FBI has been involved since day one and saw entire case file, Dutch investigators involved and saw entire case file, KLPD complete review of entire case file and guess what? Joran was and is the prime suspect in the disappearance of a human being.
Or is this where it's now ok to bash them and call them among other things:
Tunnelvisioned....refused to look elsewhere where the 'real' truth lies....Mos is just an asshole....heads of the investigation don't even know what was in the files even being in charge of the case for years.....just caved to the demands of the nasty mother..... ignored what was in the files all along that would have cleared the suspect and charged/convicted MBers, Beth and even natalee herself.
Or:
Due to Jug's long fingers, the US govt and the FBI are involved in a coverup to protect the nasty mother and MBers.....the FBI hindered the investigation.
I know the 'real' truth...answers are all in Alabammy.
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Hit the nail on the head. Too bad memories are so poor.
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| luvslalom
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:55 am |
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| hemchi wrote: | | A "system" is only as strong as those running it. How is the investigation into v/d Straten progressing? I know the OM told us to be patient - but its been a while. |
I read it was finished but needed fine tuning like dotting the i's and crossing the t's, and getting rid of evidence...again.
That was months ago.
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| petals
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:03 pm |
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| prolific wrote: | Yes thorough and professional, we've heard how spent 40% of their budget trying to solve the case, FBI has been involved since day one and saw entire case file, Dutch investigators involved and saw entire case file, KLPD complete review of entire case file and guess what? Joran was and is the prime suspect in the disappearance of a human being.
Or is this where it's now ok to bash them and call them among other things:
Tunnelvisioned....refused to look elsewhere where the 'real' truth lies....Mos is just an asshole....heads of the investigation don't even know what was in the files even being in charge of the case for years.....just caved to the demands of the nasty mother..... ignored what was in the files all along that would have cleared the suspect and charged/convicted MBers, Beth and even natalee herself.
Or:
Due to Jug's long fingers, the US govt and the FBI are involved in a coverup to protect the nasty mother and MBers.....the FBI hindered the investigation.
I know the 'real' truth...answers are all in Alabammy.
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I speak for myself only and I agree with the first paragraph. The remainder appears to be entirely rhetorical so I have no comment other than to say that some people need to make up their minds. This business of praising ALE when it fits the agenda then criticizing them when the agenda doesn't fit is widespread and pointless.
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| WangChung
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:16 pm |
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| petals wrote: |
This business of praising ALE when it fits the agenda then criticizing them when the agenda doesn't fit is widespread and pointless. |
And ooooh so obvious.
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Everybody Have Fun Tonight
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| luvslalom
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:33 pm |
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| WangChung wrote: |
And ooooh so obvious. |
Of course it's obvious! Take a look who has been cussing up the investigation when it centered on Joran, or Moss when when he said Joran knows more, or Dompig when he said Joran was guilty of something. Those that cried the loudest, now claim how great the investigation was when they no longer centre on Joran.
These sorts of things below were claimed by Iq, BB, and many more:
| Quote: | | Tunnelvisioned....refused to look elsewhere where the 'real' truth lies....Mos is just an asshole....heads of the investigation don't even know what was in the files even being in charge of the case for years.....just caved to the demands of the nasty mother..... ignored what was in the files all along that would have cleared the suspect and charged/convicted MBers, Beth and even natalee herself. |
Last edited by luvslalom on Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| WangChung
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:40 pm |
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| luvslalom wrote: |
Of course it's obvious! Take a look who has been cussing up the investigation when it centered on JOran, or Moss when when he said Joran knows more, or Dompig when he said Joran was guilty of something. Those that cried the loudest, now claim how great the investigation was when they no longer centre on Joran. |
Your opinion is appreciated. I give more creedence to the opinion of professionals, like members of the FBI. They found the investigation to be extremely thorough and still have Natalee listed in the "SEEKING INFORMATION" column. Wonder why? It might just be that there's still not a shred of credible evidence that any crime was committed against Natalee, much less by Joran and the fully exonerated Kalpoe brothers.
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Everybody Have Fun Tonight
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| luvslalom
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:54 pm |
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| WangChung wrote: |
Your opinion is appreciated. I give more creedence to the opinion of professionals, like members of the FBI. They found the investigation to be extremely thorough and still have Natalee listed in the "SEEKING INFORMATION" column. Wonder why? It might just be that there's still not a shred of credible evidence that any crime was committed against Natalee, much less by Joran and the fully exonerated Kalpoe brothers. |
I also wonder why Joran is still main suspect so much longer than is customary for Aruban law.
editted to uncap the "o" since it's may cause hysteria.
Last edited by luvslalom on Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| WangChung
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:00 pm |
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| luvslalom wrote: |
I also wonder why JOran is still main suspect so much longer than is customary for Aruban law. |
Maybe because Tommy Twitty isn't an Aruban citizen subject to Aruban law?
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Everybody Have Fun Tonight
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:02 pm |
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.. so, Wang, let me understand this, are you suggesting, if not outright accusing, Tommy Twitty of being responsible for Natalee's disappearance?
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| plhtx1
Posted:
Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:22 pm |
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Seems like Wang has Tommy Twitty issues
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