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BhamMom
 Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:25 pm |
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Pathenry,
Have you ever been a police officer? Have you ever had to deal with the smart mouth, street wise people of today? If not, how do you know you might not snap at some point?
I think this is the point Dithers was trying to make about most liberals. (And, remember, I was one at one time.) They are always talking about how things should be and yes, very vocal with what it will take to make things better but in the same situation their reaction might be the same. They have a tendency to look at a "small picture" of what they think life should be and not the big picture.
I'm preparing myself before I send this for your comeback.  My hands are tied as well as my feet so no, I won't jump through my screen and punch you. I'm saying these words as someone who was all against the Vietnam war, who believed in love not war and all the other "garbage" of my generation. However, I've grown up and have responsibilities now and try, (I said, try) to look at the big picture. It has amazed me how liberal I use to be compared to now.
Was being a liberal bad? No, Pat, it wasn't. However, I realize that I began to view life as something it was not. I believed in humane treatment (and still do) but realize that people are just down right evil and have full intention of harm. I use to think it was always "because they were pushed" or someone else's fault. And will the judicial system give the person that killed this innocent baby what they deserve? No, I think not. Put him away to some place where he will suffer from loss? I don't think so. He will serve time, get free meals and medical treatment. Hey, he can even get a college education at OUR expense. Yeah, that's punishment.
I am what I am, or am not (Sam, I am? ) because of my choices and not because someone has made me this way.
I am being nice and not popping off at the mouth. Actually, you are lucky tonight. I must be in a good mood. Aren't you glad?
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Location: Posting with bitter people
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| Lexy
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:32 pm |
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| pathenry wrote: | | Isanah wrote: | | pathenry wrote: | | dithers wrote: | Okay F-G-L,
My apologies. The posts come so fast and furious I can't keep up with them. But I was under the impression you'd posted articles trying to pin the little girl's death on her own actions.
Sorry, but I'm really steamed up about this tonight. Maybe because it's Friday. Who knows. But I'm loaded for bear tonight and not in the mood to take crap from anyone. So sorry if I jumped at you without cause. My apologies.
I really do get confused here sometimes. One post by someone looks like they have the same viewpoint I do and the next appears totally opposite. Chalk it up to my old age. |
dithers: You should have beat the shit out her first and then asked questions.  |
lol, pathenry, however, I don't think Dithers is any mood to see that comment as funny!
I would enjoy more "name that tune" threads, Dithers, Pax and you left me hanging on the other one! |
Touche'
Here's one......Kathy Lee Johnson will only be humming the title:
"If you wake up and dont want to smile,
If it takes just a little while,
Open your eyes and look at the day,
Youll see things in a different way.
hum HUM, thinking about tomorrow,
hum HUM, it'll soon be here,
It'll be, better than before,
Yesterdays gone, yesterdays gone.
Why not think about times to come,
And not about the things that youve done,
If your life was bad to you,
Just think what tomorrow will do." |
Don't stop thinking about tomorrow....Fleetwood Mac..great album!
I had the 33LP album of Rumours 
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| amicus
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:40 pm |
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Did anyone go read the Texas statute? Doesn't apply to death of child only injury. The child was not pronounced dead at the scene.
1. Could be the child was not dead when the charges were laid.
2. Could be a tactic to try to jockey one into rolling on his buddy. Don't tell him he's up for homicide yet. Injury to a child is a concurrent sentence.
Anyway, the easy charge in this case would be felony murder. No matter who was driving they could both be charged.
Oh, and it's possible that the reporter just got it wrong.
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| pathenry
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:53 pm |
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| BhamMom wrote: | Pathenry,
Have you ever been a police officer? Have you ever had to deal with the smart mouth, street wise people of today? If not, how do you know you might not snap at some point?
I think this is the point Dithers was trying to make about most liberals. (And, remember, I was one at one time.) They are always talking about how things should be and yes, very vocal with what it will take to make things better but in the same situation their reaction might be the same. They have a tendency to look at a "small picture" of what they think life should be and not the big picture.
I'm preparing myself before I send this for your comeback. My hands are tied as well as my feet so no, I won't jump through my screen and punch you. I'm saying these words as someone who was all against the Vietnam war, who believed in love not war and all the other "garbage" of my generation. However, I've grown up and have responsibilities now and try, (I said, try) to look at the big picture. It has amazed me how liberal I use to be compared to now.
Was being a liberal bad? No, Pat, it wasn't. However, I realize that I began to view life as something it was not. I believed in humane treatment (and still do) but realize that people are just down right evil and have full intention of harm. I use to think it was always "because they were pushed" or someone else's fault. And will the judicial system give the person that killed this innocent baby what they deserve? No, I think not. Put him away to some place where he will suffer from loss? I don't think so. He will serve time, get free meals and medical treatment. Hey, he can even get a college education at OUR expense. Yeah, that's punishment.
I am what I am, or am not (Sam, I am? ) because of my choices and not because someone has made me this way.
I am being nice and not popping off at the mouth. Actually, you are lucky tonight. I must be in a good mood. Aren't you glad? |
I am an individual first. My political affiliation is not my mind. I lwas raised to know the difference being right and wrong. At different times in life I have overreacted and I have been overreacted upon. If there were consequences to pay, I paid them. It didn't change the difference between right and wrong. I may be a peace loving sap that just wants everybody to be fed, have a roof over their heads, access to healthcare, a safe environment to live in and equal rights applied to and for all, but that is who I am. I'm not an eye for an eye person, I don't seek vengeance, and I don't live my life in fear and despair. Celebrate life, make the world a better place.....we are only grains of sand passing through the hourglass....why waste time dwelling on what is not to be. Someone should have told Beth to move on, talk about Natalee's life, celebrate her existence not constantly dwell on bitterness, hatefulness and vengeance. How has that served any purpose? I don't see things in your light, I respect that and we will continue to disagree.
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:06 pm |
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| pathenry wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | Pathenry,
Have you ever been a police officer? Have you ever had to deal with the smart mouth, street wise people of today? If not, how do you know you might not snap at some point?
I think this is the point Dithers was trying to make about most liberals. (And, remember, I was one at one time.) They are always talking about how things should be and yes, very vocal with what it will take to make things better but in the same situation their reaction might be the same. They have a tendency to look at a "small picture" of what they think life should be and not the big picture.
I'm preparing myself before I send this for your comeback. My hands are tied as well as my feet so no, I won't jump through my screen and punch you. I'm saying these words as someone who was all against the Vietnam war, who believed in love not war and all the other "garbage" of my generation. However, I've grown up and have responsibilities now and try, (I said, try) to look at the big picture. It has amazed me how liberal I use to be compared to now.
Was being a liberal bad? No, Pat, it wasn't. However, I realize that I began to view life as something it was not. I believed in humane treatment (and still do) but realize that people are just down right evil and have full intention of harm. I use to think it was always "because they were pushed" or someone else's fault. And will the judicial system give the person that killed this innocent baby what they deserve? No, I think not. Put him away to some place where he will suffer from loss? I don't think so. He will serve time, get free meals and medical treatment. Hey, he can even get a college education at OUR expense. Yeah, that's punishment.
I am what I am, or am not (Sam, I am? ) because of my choices and not because someone has made me this way.
I am being nice and not popping off at the mouth. Actually, you are lucky tonight. I must be in a good mood. Aren't you glad? |
I am an individual first. My political affiliation is not my mind. I lwas raised to know the difference being right and wrong. At different times in life I have overreacted and I have been overreacted upon. If there were consequences to pay, I paid them. It didn't change the difference between right and wrong. I may be a peace loving sap that just wants everybody to be fed, have a roof over their heads, access to healthcare, a safe environment to live in and equal rights applied to and for all, but that is who I am. I'm not an eye for an eye person, I don't seek vengeance, and I don't live my life in fear and despair. Celebrate life, make the world a better place.....we are only grains of sand passing through the hourglass....why waste time dwelling on what is not to be. Someone should have told Beth to move on, talk about Natalee's life, celebrate her existence not constantly dwell on bitterness, hatefulness and vengeance. How has that served any purpose? I don't see things in your light, I respect that and we will continue to disagree. |
And, you're right. (Did I say that?) But, what is right for you might be wrong for me. And what's right for me might be wrong for you. And then, IF we get lucky, what is right for you might be right for me or what is wrong for you might also be wrong for me. Who needs alcohol to get drunk? Just do it with words.
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Location: Posting with bitter people
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| RatPatrol
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:17 pm |
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| BhamMom wrote: | | pathenry wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | Pathenry,
Have you ever been a police officer? Have you ever had to deal with the smart mouth, street wise people of today? If not, how do you know you might not snap at some point?
I think this is the point Dithers was trying to make about most liberals. (And, remember, I was one at one time.) They are always talking about how things should be and yes, very vocal with what it will take to make things better but in the same situation their reaction might be the same. They have a tendency to look at a "small picture" of what they think life should be and not the big picture.
I'm preparing myself before I send this for your comeback. My hands are tied as well as my feet so no, I won't jump through my screen and punch you. I'm saying these words as someone who was all against the Vietnam war, who believed in love not war and all the other "garbage" of my generation. However, I've grown up and have responsibilities now and try, (I said, try) to look at the big picture. It has amazed me how liberal I use to be compared to now.
Was being a liberal bad? No, Pat, it wasn't. However, I realize that I began to view life as something it was not. I believed in humane treatment (and still do) but realize that people are just down right evil and have full intention of harm. I use to think it was always "because they were pushed" or someone else's fault. And will the judicial system give the person that killed this innocent baby what they deserve? No, I think not. Put him away to some place where he will suffer from loss? I don't think so. He will serve time, get free meals and medical treatment. Hey, he can even get a college education at OUR expense. Yeah, that's punishment.
I am what I am, or am not (Sam, I am? ) because of my choices and not because someone has made me this way.
I am being nice and not popping off at the mouth. Actually, you are lucky tonight. I must be in a good mood. Aren't you glad? |
I am an individual first. My political affiliation is not my mind. I lwas raised to know the difference being right and wrong. At different times in life I have overreacted and I have been overreacted upon. If there were consequences to pay, I paid them. It didn't change the difference between right and wrong. I may be a peace loving sap that just wants everybody to be fed, have a roof over their heads, access to healthcare, a safe environment to live in and equal rights applied to and for all, but that is who I am. I'm not an eye for an eye person, I don't seek vengeance, and I don't live my life in fear and despair. Celebrate life, make the world a better place.....we are only grains of sand passing through the hourglass....why waste time dwelling on what is not to be. Someone should have told Beth to move on, talk about Natalee's life, celebrate her existence not constantly dwell on bitterness, hatefulness and vengeance. How has that served any purpose? I don't see things in your light, I respect that and we will continue to disagree. |
And, you're right. (Did I say that?) But, what is right for you might be wrong for me. And what's right for me might be wrong for you. And then, IF we get lucky, what is right for you might be right for me or what is wrong for you might also be wrong for me. Who needs alcohol to get drunk? Just do it with words. |
At this rate you two are gonna be  before we make it to page 6.
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On the Prowl
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:24 pm |
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| RatPatrol wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | | pathenry wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | Pathenry,
Have you ever been a police officer? Have you ever had to deal with the smart mouth, street wise people of today? If not, how do you know you might not snap at some point?
I think this is the point Dithers was trying to make about most liberals. (And, remember, I was one at one time.) They are always talking about how things should be and yes, very vocal with what it will take to make things better but in the same situation their reaction might be the same. They have a tendency to look at a "small picture" of what they think life should be and not the big picture.
I'm preparing myself before I send this for your comeback. My hands are tied as well as my feet so no, I won't jump through my screen and punch you. I'm saying these words as someone who was all against the Vietnam war, who believed in love not war and all the other "garbage" of my generation. However, I've grown up and have responsibilities now and try, (I said, try) to look at the big picture. It has amazed me how liberal I use to be compared to now.
Was being a liberal bad? No, Pat, it wasn't. However, I realize that I began to view life as something it was not. I believed in humane treatment (and still do) but realize that people are just down right evil and have full intention of harm. I use to think it was always "because they were pushed" or someone else's fault. And will the judicial system give the person that killed this innocent baby what they deserve? No, I think not. Put him away to some place where he will suffer from loss? I don't think so. He will serve time, get free meals and medical treatment. Hey, he can even get a college education at OUR expense. Yeah, that's punishment.
I am what I am, or am not (Sam, I am? ) because of my choices and not because someone has made me this way.
I am being nice and not popping off at the mouth. Actually, you are lucky tonight. I must be in a good mood. Aren't you glad? |
I am an individual first. My political affiliation is not my mind. I lwas raised to know the difference being right and wrong. At different times in life I have overreacted and I have been overreacted upon. If there were consequences to pay, I paid them. It didn't change the difference between right and wrong. I may be a peace loving sap that just wants everybody to be fed, have a roof over their heads, access to healthcare, a safe environment to live in and equal rights applied to and for all, but that is who I am. I'm not an eye for an eye person, I don't seek vengeance, and I don't live my life in fear and despair. Celebrate life, make the world a better place.....we are only grains of sand passing through the hourglass....why waste time dwelling on what is not to be. Someone should have told Beth to move on, talk about Natalee's life, celebrate her existence not constantly dwell on bitterness, hatefulness and vengeance. How has that served any purpose? I don't see things in your light, I respect that and we will continue to disagree. |
And, you're right. (Did I say that?) But, what is right for you might be wrong for me. And what's right for me might be wrong for you. And then, IF we get lucky, what is right for you might be right for me or what is wrong for you might also be wrong for me. Who needs alcohol to get drunk? Just do it with words. |
At this rate you two are gonna be before we make it to page 6. |
Rat,
I'm yanking Pat's chain. I'm just not sure Pat realizes that yet but, sssshhh, it's a secret.
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** Banned **
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 13086
Location: Posting with bitter people
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| pathenry
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:32 pm |
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| RatPatrol wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | | pathenry wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | Pathenry,
Have you ever been a police officer? Have you ever had to deal with the smart mouth, street wise people of today? If not, how do you know you might not snap at some point?
I think this is the point Dithers was trying to make about most liberals. (And, remember, I was one at one time.) They are always talking about how things should be and yes, very vocal with what it will take to make things better but in the same situation their reaction might be the same. They have a tendency to look at a "small picture" of what they think life should be and not the big picture.
I'm preparing myself before I send this for your comeback. My hands are tied as well as my feet so no, I won't jump through my screen and punch you. I'm saying these words as someone who was all against the Vietnam war, who believed in love not war and all the other "garbage" of my generation. However, I've grown up and have responsibilities now and try, (I said, try) to look at the big picture. It has amazed me how liberal I use to be compared to now.
Was being a liberal bad? No, Pat, it wasn't. However, I realize that I began to view life as something it was not. I believed in humane treatment (and still do) but realize that people are just down right evil and have full intention of harm. I use to think it was always "because they were pushed" or someone else's fault. And will the judicial system give the person that killed this innocent baby what they deserve? No, I think not. Put him away to some place where he will suffer from loss? I don't think so. He will serve time, get free meals and medical treatment. Hey, he can even get a college education at OUR expense. Yeah, that's punishment.
I am what I am, or am not (Sam, I am? ) because of my choices and not because someone has made me this way.
I am being nice and not popping off at the mouth. Actually, you are lucky tonight. I must be in a good mood. Aren't you glad? |
I am an individual first. My political affiliation is not my mind. I lwas raised to know the difference being right and wrong. At different times in life I have overreacted and I have been overreacted upon. If there were consequences to pay, I paid them. It didn't change the difference between right and wrong. I may be a peace loving sap that just wants everybody to be fed, have a roof over their heads, access to healthcare, a safe environment to live in and equal rights applied to and for all, but that is who I am. I'm not an eye for an eye person, I don't seek vengeance, and I don't live my life in fear and despair. Celebrate life, make the world a better place.....we are only grains of sand passing through the hourglass....why waste time dwelling on what is not to be. Someone should have told Beth to move on, talk about Natalee's life, celebrate her existence not constantly dwell on bitterness, hatefulness and vengeance. How has that served any purpose? I don't see things in your light, I respect that and we will continue to disagree. |
And, you're right. (Did I say that?) But, what is right for you might be wrong for me. And what's right for me might be wrong for you. And then, IF we get lucky, what is right for you might be right for me or what is wrong for you might also be wrong for me. Who needs alcohol to get drunk? Just do it with words. |
At this rate you two are gonna be before we make it to page 6. |
I can't tonight...I have a three way scheduled with Maureen Dowd and Dr. Laura on another thread.
BhamaMom is ust a chain yanker anyway...hmmph. 
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Resigned
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:36 pm |
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| pathenry wrote: | | RatPatrol wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | | pathenry wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | Pathenry,
Have you ever been a police officer? Have you ever had to deal with the smart mouth, street wise people of today? If not, how do you know you might not snap at some point?
I think this is the point Dithers was trying to make about most liberals. (And, remember, I was one at one time.) They are always talking about how things should be and yes, very vocal with what it will take to make things better but in the same situation their reaction might be the same. They have a tendency to look at a "small picture" of what they think life should be and not the big picture.
I'm preparing myself before I send this for your comeback. My hands are tied as well as my feet so no, I won't jump through my screen and punch you. I'm saying these words as someone who was all against the Vietnam war, who believed in love not war and all the other "garbage" of my generation. However, I've grown up and have responsibilities now and try, (I said, try) to look at the big picture. It has amazed me how liberal I use to be compared to now.
Was being a liberal bad? No, Pat, it wasn't. However, I realize that I began to view life as something it was not. I believed in humane treatment (and still do) but realize that people are just down right evil and have full intention of harm. I use to think it was always "because they were pushed" or someone else's fault. And will the judicial system give the person that killed this innocent baby what they deserve? No, I think not. Put him away to some place where he will suffer from loss? I don't think so. He will serve time, get free meals and medical treatment. Hey, he can even get a college education at OUR expense. Yeah, that's punishment.
I am what I am, or am not (Sam, I am? ) because of my choices and not because someone has made me this way.
I am being nice and not popping off at the mouth. Actually, you are lucky tonight. I must be in a good mood. Aren't you glad? |
I am an individual first. My political affiliation is not my mind. I lwas raised to know the difference being right and wrong. At different times in life I have overreacted and I have been overreacted upon. If there were consequences to pay, I paid them. It didn't change the difference between right and wrong. I may be a peace loving sap that just wants everybody to be fed, have a roof over their heads, access to healthcare, a safe environment to live in and equal rights applied to and for all, but that is who I am. I'm not an eye for an eye person, I don't seek vengeance, and I don't live my life in fear and despair. Celebrate life, make the world a better place.....we are only grains of sand passing through the hourglass....why waste time dwelling on what is not to be. Someone should have told Beth to move on, talk about Natalee's life, celebrate her existence not constantly dwell on bitterness, hatefulness and vengeance. How has that served any purpose? I don't see things in your light, I respect that and we will continue to disagree. |
And, you're right. (Did I say that?) But, what is right for you might be wrong for me. And what's right for me might be wrong for you. And then, IF we get lucky, what is right for you might be right for me or what is wrong for you might also be wrong for me. Who needs alcohol to get drunk? Just do it with words. |
At this rate you two are gonna be before we make it to page 6. |
I can't tonight...I have a three way scheduled with Maureen Dowd and Dr. Laura on another thread.
BhamaMom is ust a chain yanker anyway...hmmph. |
At least Rat said and not  because I was going to say I had a headache. 
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** Banned **
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:21 pm |
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Harris County prosecutors decided to file aggravated robbery charges in a deadly carjacking because the evidence did not show the attackers intended to kill a girl, a key element for a murder charge, officials said.
"It doesn't sound like a serious enough charge — maybe that is what people's perception is," said Di Glaeser, chief of the major offender and special crimes unit of the Harris County District Attorney's Office. "I think, that if these people are guilty, they should receive the most serious punishment and that would be aggravated robbery."
"It would be very difficult to make a capital murder case that we could prosecute because it would require proving the specific intent to kill," he said.
Rosenthal said he had his best prosecutors working on the case and that "if they could have done something more serious they would have."
Glaeser said a capital murder charge would have required evidence showing the suspects set out to kill the toddler, but the evidence available did not sustain that charge.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3977684.html
So it seems that I was right about the fact that they did not set out to kill the toddler, and the murder charge would be difficult to proove in a court of law.
It is just sad all around. These scumbags will most likely be pushed out of jail to make more room for drug dealers, and for criminals with more henious charges, "way before their time". It is just disgusting. How is it that we can charge drunk drivers with homicide or manslaughter, when they end up killing their best friends in the passenger seat, yet when thieves run over a little girl in their haste to get away, they get off? I just don't understand that.
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:27 pm |
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I thought that if someone was killed as a result of a carjacking that it was automatically a murder 1 charge. Am I dreaming or is this Alabama law? Charlierat, where are you. Wasn't this something that happened in Alabama several years ago as a result of the FBI agent killed on 280? Please tell me I'm not totally crazy.
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| DoobieBear11
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:28 pm |
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Wouldn't the charge of manslaughter be the answer? Isn't that where your actions cause the death of someone even though the intent wasn't there? As in the case of drunk driving while the drunk doesn't mean to cause death his actions (getting drunk and driving) allowed the death to happen. In this case the hijacking itself allowed the death to happen. I'm not quite sure I understand the reasoning for the seemingly less severe charge.
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:34 pm |
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here is more of the article...
"There are fewer elements to prove in an aggravated robbery and the same evidence would come out regardless of the charge during the trial, and so it is in our opinion a wiser decision to charge these three individuals with aggravated robbery," she said.
Aggravated robbery, like murder, is a first-degree felony. They carry the same punishment.
Yes DoobieBear, I would think that they would be charged with involuntary manslaughter in the very least as I stated in one of my posts, but it seems that it would be easier to prove the aggravated robbery- and since it carries the same punishment as murder (???) that is the reason that this is the charge.
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| DoobieBear11
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:39 pm |
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Thanks for the explanation, Fu-Gee-La. I missed your earlier post. I guess it's the "aggravating" factors that make it a felony. It's no wonder jurors get hung up on aggravating factors, they sure confuse me at times!
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| Fu-Gee-La
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:44 pm |
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| DoobieBear11 wrote: | | Thanks for the explanation, Fu-Gee-La. I missed your earlier post. I guess it's the "aggravating" factors that make it a felony. It's no wonder jurors get hung up on aggravating factors, they sure confuse me at times! |
Also, these scumbags were on a crime spree that day- this was not the first family that they robbed- and that day. If the aggravated robbery charges stack up, that could translate to Life in Prison. They are now asking for more people to come forward who were victims in this crime spree.
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***Deactivated: Pending Review***
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:09 pm |
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I'm still confused. I thought the federal law would be what would apply in this case. It qualifies as a "carjacking" which the applicable law is federal, not state. Since the car was occupied by owner's family members, shouldn't it be a carjacking? The federal law states 25 years minimum sentence IF serious bodily is done during the action of carjacking. The death penalty CAN BE enforced if a death occurs. So why is Texas law even a part of this crime? Isn't it a part of the United States and shouldn't the federal law be what they use?
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:44 pm |
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BhamMom, I'm not familiar with the details of the case. But I should mention that a death that occurs during the commission of a felony is called a felony-murder. Intent to kill does not have to be proved. If you rob a bank and during the commission of the robbery someone dies of a heart attack, you are guilty of murder, because it occurred during the felonious act.
As for State law, remember the Washington D.C. sniper case? A number of States wanted a crack at the defendants, because the murders took place in different States.
As for Federal law, if Federal law is violated, the Justice Department will also want a crack at the defendants. Rest assured, the different prosecutors and U.S. attorneys will work it out.
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| amicus
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:28 pm |
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Pax, I didn't go back and read the last page or so but the element of intent in the federal case makes the felony-murder an easier case to make. As you pointed out nothing to prove but that a death occurred in the course of the felony. The Federal carjacking stature has gone before the Supreme Court once before-- the old court-- who rendered a decision that broadened the nature of the intent for the purposes of the act.
Scalia and Thomas dissented with Scalia writing a dissenting opinion based on a narrow textual analysis of the statue which would require a strict interpretation of the law, i.e., a need to prove intent to cause death or GBH during a car jacking plus the rule of leniency in the interpretation of a criminal statute. It could go either way with the new court because I understand that Roberts also favors textual interpreation.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 387
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:35 pm |
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Wow, Amicus, that is really interesting. Thanks so much for sharing it.
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:46 pm |
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| pax wrote: | BhamMom, I'm not familiar with the details of the case. But I should mention that a death that occurs during the commission of a felony is called a felony-murder. Intent to kill does not have to be proved. If you rob a bank and during the commission of the robbery someone dies of a heart attack, you are guilty of murder, because it occurred during the felonious act.
As for State law, remember the Washington D.C. sniper case? A number of States wanted a crack at the defendants, because the murders took place in different States.
As for Federal law, if Federal law is violated, the Justice Department will also want a crack at the defendants. Rest assured, the different prosecutors and U.S. attorneys will work it out. |
Pax,
Do all carjacking not fall under federal offense? Did I dream this? Remember, I'm not the attorney, just interested in law.
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** Banned **
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Posting with bitter people
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| pax
Posted:
Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:37 am |
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^ BHamMom, I'm not sure.
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| pathenry
Posted:
Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:42 am |
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| BhamMom wrote: | | pax wrote: | BhamMom, I'm not familiar with the details of the case. But I should mention that a death that occurs during the commission of a felony is called a felony-murder. Intent to kill does not have to be proved. If you rob a bank and during the commission of the robbery someone dies of a heart attack, you are guilty of murder, because it occurred during the felonious act.
As for State law, remember the Washington D.C. sniper case? A number of States wanted a crack at the defendants, because the murders took place in different States.
As for Federal law, if Federal law is violated, the Justice Department will also want a crack at the defendants. Rest assured, the different prosecutors and U.S. attorneys will work it out. |
Pax,
Do all carjacking not fall under federal offense? Did I dream this? Remember, I'm not the attorney, just interested in law. |
Yes, It stemmed from a horrible case in Md. where the victim was dragged to her death.
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"In the United States, carjacking is the crime of motor vehicle theft from a person who is present. Typically the carjacker is armed, and the driver of the car is forced out of the car at gunpoint. The word is a portmanteau of car and hijacking."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carjacking
edited to add:
"In the United States, a law was passed in 1992 making carjacking a federal crime, amid a large amount of media attention on an apparent rash of carjacking thefts, several of which resulted in homicide, including the notorious September 1992 carjacking death of Pam Basu in Savage, Maryland (Basu was carjacked at a stop sign in the town, becoming tangled in her seatbelt and subsequently dragged to her death). This was criticized by Libertarians and states' rights activists, who noted that the control of crime is a matter for the states and not the federal government, and opined that carjacking was only made a federal crime in order to make some incumbents appear tough on crime to gain votes."
also wikpedia
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Resigned
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 3551
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| pax
Posted:
Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:52 am |
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Interesting, pathenry. Thanks.
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| pathenry
Posted:
Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:58 am |
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Life Term in Carjacking That Led to Laws
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Published: August 20, 1993
A man convicted of murdering a woman while stealing her car was spared the death penalty and sentenced to life in prison on Wednesday. The case had led Congress and several states to enact laws against carjacking.
The defendant, Rodney Solomon, 27, was sentenced in the killing of 34-year-old Pam Basu, a research chemist who was dragged to her death last Sept. 8 after being forced from her car at a stop sign.
After being forced out, Mrs. Basu's arm became tangled in a seat belt as she reached for her 22-month-old daughter. The child was left unharmed at the side of the road.
The jury could have sentenced Mr. Solomon to death. Judge Dana Levitz of Circuit Court also sentenced him to 80 years in prison for robbery, kidnapping and assault.
Mr. Solomon's accomplice, Bernard Miller, was convicted in April and drew life in prison with parole possible in 17 and a half years. He avoided the death penalty because he was 16 at the time of the crime.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE0DC173FF933A1575BC0A965958260
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Resigned
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 3551
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:07 am |
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| pathenry wrote: | Life Term in Carjacking That Led to Laws
* Print
* Save
Article Tools Sponsored By
Published: August 20, 1993
A man convicted of murdering a woman while stealing her car was spared the death penalty and sentenced to life in prison on Wednesday. The case had led Congress and several states to enact laws against carjacking.
The defendant, Rodney Solomon, 27, was sentenced in the killing of 34-year-old Pam Basu, a research chemist who was dragged to her death last Sept. 8 after being forced from her car at a stop sign.
After being forced out, Mrs. Basu's arm became tangled in a seat belt as she reached for her 22-month-old daughter. The child was left unharmed at the side of the road.
The jury could have sentenced Mr. Solomon to death. Judge Dana Levitz of Circuit Court also sentenced him to 80 years in prison for robbery, kidnapping and assault.
Mr. Solomon's accomplice, Bernard Miller, was convicted in April and drew life in prison with parole possible in 17 and a half years. He avoided the death penalty because he was 16 at the time of the crime.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE0DC173FF933A1575BC0A965958260 |
And, another child grows up without a mama. 
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