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Abarth
 Posted:
Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:20 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: | | Abarth wrote: | | iwabwu wrote: |
Since Natalee was an adult, whe did not runaway, she could have walked away at any time. MO
How does an island repond to a potential drowning? Wait 48 hours? Blame insurance fraud? Blame the victim?
How does an island respond to potential foul play? Accept lies from witnesses/suspects as gospel?
Why wouldn't someone want to look at all information available? Not just rely on the conclusions of others?
Turn off the kool-aid tapper if you will. Why wouldn't ALE consider that patio? Didn't someone look and wonder when the property was under watch in the early days of the investigation?
If someone wants to find answers, I believe they need to ask questions. I believe KJ, asked for a search of the entire van der Sloot compound. The search was limited on-site. That just doesn't make good sense to me. JMHO |
What do the BFF of the missing person ? Take the first plane out of the island ? Get the hell out of there ? |
I'm not sure what the BFF are. |
I'm not sure either, because they went on to party in MB.
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Location: Utreg
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:01 pm |
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Drowning? Where is the evidence that Natalee may have drowned? Was she left at the beach?
from the GVS interview transcript -
| Quote: | VAN SUSTEREN: When you left her that night, were there any people around who might have seen something? You make the plea for people to come forward. Did you see anybody in the immediate area?
VAN DER SLOOT: No, that's exactly what I said. I mean, there were couples there on the beach. I mean, you know, please, come forward. You know, talk to the police. There was a couple that walked by when we were there on the beach. I mean, it's not — it's not like it's a deserted beach. It's a crowded area where there's a lot of people. You know, just come forward and talk to the — you know, tell the police everything you know. It's just very important. |
read more here -
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186880,00.html
Have any of these people come forward to support his story of leaving her at the beach?
Who picked Joran up from the beach? Did either of the Kalpoes pick up Joran?
| Quote: | Kock said those records show Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. on the morning Holloway disappeared.
The lawyer said in that call, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told Kalpoe he left Holloway on the beach and was walking home.
Koch said that about 40 minutes later -- about the time it would take him to walk home -- Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe to tell him he had arrived.
"I just think this goes to show that the story that Deepak and Satish are telling ... is substantiated by facts," Kock said. |
read more here -
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/26/aruba.missing/index.html
From the GVS interview -
| Quote: | VAN SUSTEREN: Did Satish ever get out of the car when he picked you up?
VAN DER SLOOT: No, no, no. Never. He stayed behind the wheel the whole time.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you point in the general area where Natalee was?
VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, I said that (INAUDIBLE) right there, and that — you know, that — you know, he said, yes, let's screw it. Let's — let's go home.
VAN SUSTEREN: So about how far away was Natalee, at that point, from the car when Satish picked you up? |
read more here -
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186707,00.html
From the Vanity Fair article -
| Quote: | Nightmare in Paradise
By BRYAN BURROUGH
...
Aruban detectives have repeatedly interviewed witnesses in an effort to establish that time line. It's been widely reported, for instance, that Joran returned to his home that morning around four. In fact, Dompig says, "nobody knows what time he got home." Nor is it clear how he got there. "He says he walked," Dompig continues, a distance of about two miles. "That is very unlikely."
The tennis shoes Joran wore that night have never been found, which police find suspicious. Another missing item involves a break-in that night at one of the low-slung fisherman's huts that line the beach north of the Marriott. Reported taken were a machete and perhaps a lobster trap. The police do not have a single witness who claims to have seen Joran that morning.
... |
How did Joran get home from the beach? Is there any evidence that Natalee and Joran were on the beach that night?
How could Natalee drown and be swept away, if she wasn't at the beach?
How could someone estimate a blood alcohol content for a missing person without a body? A blood test?
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
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Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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| apodixis
Posted:
Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:20 pm |
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The evidence that Natalee and Joran were on the beach that night allegedly comes from the statements of J2K.
In a courtroom the credibility of a witness can be impeached by showing other untruths they may have uttered; but the fact that there are no other reports of some one being seen is not evidence, for the following reason:
The appeal to non-existence (argumentum ex silentio) is a logical fallacy. The absence of evidence of or proof about something says nothing about its existence or non-existence. One cannot prove something that does not exist. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:08 am |
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Absolutely, Apo, you cannot prove that you didn't do something. You cannot prove a negative.
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 10465
Location: France
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| MF
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:58 am |
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While the hatefull monkeys fill the pages with promotional links to site/pages filles with lies and misinformation, I still have a question, is there a proof or evidence that Natalee is dead?
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| all10suspects
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:05 am |
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| yankee-in-france wrote: | | Absolutely, Apo, you cannot prove that you didn't do something. You cannot prove a negative. |
So J2K cannot prove that they dropped Natalee off at the hotel.
So J2K cannot prove they Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach.
So J2K cannot prove that Natalee was seen a live after getting into Deepaks car.
So if J2K cannot prove any of the above what does that mean for J2K?
Will J2K always be link with Natalee Hollway for ever?
Will Aruba and Natalee Holloway always be in the same article?
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| MF
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:09 am |
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| all10suspects wrote: | | yankee-in-france wrote: | | Absolutely, Apo, you cannot prove that you didn't do something. You cannot prove a negative. |
So J2K cannot prove that they dropped Natalee off at the hotel.
So J2K cannot prove they Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach.
So J2K cannot prove that Natalee was seen a live after getting into Deepaks car.
So if J2K cannot prove any of the above what does that mean for J2K?
Will J2K always be link with Natalee Hollway for ever?
Will Aruba and Natalee Holloway always be in the same article? |
It doesn't bother me that Natalee and Aruba are mentioned in the same article, it show that Teenagers will behave like teenagers, no matter where in the world they go, they might experiment with alcohol and continue their use of legal and illegal drugs.
J2K are in the same position as Beth, none can proof anything they said about Natalee. They both lied, but Beth kept on lying, bribed persons, officials, created false statements by purposely mistranslated them etc etc... even created a false image of her daughter. And yet there is not proof that Natalee is dead.
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:54 am |
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| MF wrote: | | all10suspects wrote: | | yankee-in-france wrote: | | Absolutely, Apo, you cannot prove that you didn't do something. You cannot prove a negative. |
So J2K cannot prove that they dropped Natalee off at the hotel.
So J2K cannot prove they Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach.
So J2K cannot prove that Natalee was seen a live after getting into Deepaks car.
So if J2K cannot prove any of the above what does that mean for J2K?
Will J2K always be link with Natalee Hollway for ever?
Will Aruba and Natalee Holloway always be in the same article? |
It doesn't bother me that Natalee and Aruba are mentioned in the same article, it show that Teenagers will behave like teenagers, no matter where in the world they go, they might experiment with alcohol and continue their use of legal and illegal drugs.
J2K are in the same position as Beth, none can proof anything they said about Natalee. They both lied, but Beth kept on lying, bribed persons, officials, created false statements by purposely mistranslated them etc etc... even created a false image of her daughter. And yet there is not proof that Natalee is dead. |
 , MF.
And also, we have to stress once again that J2K are innocent until proven guilty. While they will never be able to prove a negative, they do NOT need to prove their innocence.
Will they always be connected with NH, you may be right but wouldn't you think that intelligent people will move on and not keep asking the same questions over and over again. Natalee is not going to miraculously appear because of these redundant questions. Start asking the tough questions of Beth and friends, and the truth may be discovered but then, I must wonder, is that what they are afraid of?
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:57 am |
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All10 and Wabbi,
Do either of you have any criticisms of Beth and her actions since May 30, 2005? If so, I would like to hear them as I am trying to understand your mindset
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:41 am |
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YIF,
I believe far to many have let their distaste for Beth skew their purposes in this case. She may well have been the biggest prohibitor to this case. That being said, I firmly believe this case would be no further had she not gotten involved. As a parent, it is easier to understand her painful loss and equally easier to be an armchair quarterback and say what we would or would not have done differently.
Has anyone ever wondered if Beth's portrayal of Natalee's was how Beth saw her or was it just a creation to make the public want to look for her? Suffice it too say that people may be more interested in a virginal, non partying, church going honor student than a slutty booz hound anyday. The issue is people lose interest in descriptions if those descriptions turn out to not be true. The pictures of the MB'ers clearly show some partying, but why cover it up? That's what kids do.
In the end, this case has been ridiculous from the beginning and will likely go unsolved. Like Beth or not, she has done a hell of a job keeping at least her name in the press and this case going. Maybe the "squeeky wheel will get the grease" afterall.
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| Mariah
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 pm |
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| K_Meine wrote: | YIF,
I believe far to many have let their distaste for Beth skew their purposes in this case. She may well have been the biggest prohibitor to this case. That being said, I firmly believe this case would be no further had she not gotten involved. As a parent, it is easier to understand her painful loss and equally easier to be an armchair quarterback and say what we would or would not have done differently.
Has anyone ever wondered if Beth's portrayal of Natalee's was how Beth saw her or was it just a creation to make the public want to look for her? Suffice it too say that people may be more interested in a virginal, non partying, church going honor student than a slutty booz hound anyday. The issue is people lose interest in descriptions if those descriptions turn out to not be true. The pictures of the MB'ers clearly show some partying, but why cover it up? That's what kids do.
In the end, this case has been ridiculous from the beginning and will likely go unsolved. Like Beth or not, she has done a hell of a job keeping at least her name in the press and this case going. Maybe the "squeeky wheel will get the grease" afterall. |
The distaste for beth that people feel came from beth and her lies. The people who support beth to this day forget that beth had most people support in the early days. She killed it with her lies and BS. It's that plain and simple.
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| obsidian
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:34 pm |
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| Mariah wrote: | | K_Meine wrote: | YIF,
I believe far to many have let their distaste for Beth skew their purposes in this case. She may well have been the biggest prohibitor to this case. That being said, I firmly believe this case would be no further had she not gotten involved. As a parent, it is easier to understand her painful loss and equally easier to be an armchair quarterback and say what we would or would not have done differently.
Has anyone ever wondered if Beth's portrayal of Natalee's was how Beth saw her or was it just a creation to make the public want to look for her? Suffice it too say that people may be more interested in a virginal, non partying, church going honor student than a slutty booz hound anyday. The issue is people lose interest in descriptions if those descriptions turn out to not be true. The pictures of the MB'ers clearly show some partying, but why cover it up? That's what kids do.
In the end, this case has been ridiculous from the beginning and will likely go unsolved. Like Beth or not, she has done a hell of a job keeping at least her name in the press and this case going. Maybe the "squeeky wheel will get the grease" afterall. |
The distaste for beth that people feel came from beth and her lies. The people who support beth to this day forget that beth had most people support in the early days. She killed it with her lies and BS. It's that plain and simple. |
I don't agree.
I think most people lost interest when the thing began to be about the legal battles and differences in legal systems protocols and the possibility of cover-up. The juicy stuff had passed.
This place in the main believes Beth lied etc etc etc.
Others here say well, there are plenty of other questions and issues.
But this is a self-selecting group - whatever side each poster is on or whatever opinion is expressed about NH and/or H/T family - the rest of the world lumps us together as "crazy." 
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| tulsad
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:00 pm |
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| yankee-in-france wrote: | All10 and Wabbi,
Do either of you have any criticisms of Beth and her actions since May 30, 2005? If so, I would like to hear them as I am trying to understand your mindset |
 .... 
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Mariah
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:01 pm |
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| obsidian wrote: | | Mariah wrote: | | K_Meine wrote: | YIF,
I believe far to many have let their distaste for Beth skew their purposes in this case. She may well have been the biggest prohibitor to this case. That being said, I firmly believe this case would be no further had she not gotten involved. As a parent, it is easier to understand her painful loss and equally easier to be an armchair quarterback and say what we would or would not have done differently.
Has anyone ever wondered if Beth's portrayal of Natalee's was how Beth saw her or was it just a creation to make the public want to look for her? Suffice it too say that people may be more interested in a virginal, non partying, church going honor student than a slutty booz hound anyday. The issue is people lose interest in descriptions if those descriptions turn out to not be true. The pictures of the MB'ers clearly show some partying, but why cover it up? That's what kids do.
In the end, this case has been ridiculous from the beginning and will likely go unsolved. Like Beth or not, she has done a hell of a job keeping at least her name in the press and this case going. Maybe the "squeeky wheel will get the grease" afterall. |
The distaste for beth that people feel came from beth and her lies. The people who support beth to this day forget that beth had most people support in the early days. She killed it with her lies and BS. It's that plain and simple. |
I don't agree.
I think most people lost interest when the thing began to be about the legal battles and differences in legal systems protocols and the possibility of cover-up. The juicy stuff had passed.
This place in the main believes Beth lied etc etc etc.
Others here say well, there are plenty of other questions and issues.
But this is a self-selecting group - whatever side each poster is on or whatever opinion is expressed about NH and/or H/T family - the rest of the world lumps us together as "crazy." |
It was one of many of beth's lies that drew me tinot this case, the toothbrush lie. Up till then I was in wait and see mode. So I read everything I can find on the case. While I to this day still believe Natalee probably drown. I can see her running away. What the public has seen of beth is mild compared to what NH lived with daily. Beth all by her self put her where she is now.
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:14 pm |
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| K_Meine wrote: | YIF,
I believe far to many have let their distaste for Beth skew their purposes in this case. She may well have been the biggest prohibitor to this case. That being said, I firmly believe this case would be no further had she not gotten involved. As a parent, it is easier to understand her painful loss and equally easier to be an armchair quarterback and say what we would or would not have done differently.
Has anyone ever wondered if Beth's portrayal of Natalee's was how Beth saw her or was it just a creation to make the public want to look for her? Suffice it too say that people may be more interested in a virginal, non partying, church going honor student than a slutty booz hound anyday. The issue is people lose interest in descriptions if those descriptions turn out to not be true. The pictures of the MB'ers clearly show some partying, but why cover it up? That's what kids do.
In the end, this case has been ridiculous from the beginning and will likely go unsolved. Like Beth or not, she has done a hell of a job keeping at least her name in the press and this case going. Maybe the "squeeky wheel will get the grease" afterall. |
_____________________________________________________________
Has anyone ever wondered if Beth's portrayal of Natalee's was how Beth saw her or was it just a creation to make the public want to look for her?
It could have been both, but it could also have been as it appeared to be, totally contrived and manipulative.
.. I firmly believe this case would be no further had she not gotten involved.
K, I respect your opinions, but I particularly disagree with this statement. Let's back up to the fateful day when Natalee was supposed to be homeward bound. Let's assume that when Beth was notified wherever she was that she told whoever it was who called her to immediately contact the police and report Natalee missing or we can do it a different way. Let's say that once Beth was told, she immediately called ALE, reported Natalee missing, and asked for their help. (I believe this is the course of action that most parents would have started with. I know, JMO) OK, now Beth can do as she did, get to Aruba ASAP. However, instead of launching her own investigation and waking up the VDS family at 3AM, she would have stopped by the police station, introduce herself, and set up an appointment for the morning. She then could have checked into the hotel and talked to whoever was still there who had info.
She would have gone to the police most likely with the same info that Natalee left with J2K. The difference, of course, is that these three young men would not have been scared shxtless by the Alabama posse as I have no doubt they were an imposing force. Chances are that had they been questioned by the police initially, they would have told the truth, and yes, I believe that the case would not have played out as a bad soap opera. We may still not know of Natalee's fate, but we wouldn't be talking about it now, and more importantly, Joran, Deepak and Satish would not have been harmed as they have been, and I am not condoning their lying. They just don't deserve this.
You may be right, K_Meine, about the squeaky wheel getting the grease, but it only proves that media attention alone does not solve cases. No matter what pain you are enduring, you cannot bash a country, its laws, its law enforcement agencies, and its citizens continuously without being criticized in spite of your personal pain and judged accordingly.
YIF
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| apodixis
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm |
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iwabwu Posted above: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:46 pm
“Who installed that patio? …. From what I recall reading, it was installed within the days after Natalee's disappearance. It was installed just days before the limited search of Joran's living space. It could be as simple as Natalee being buried under the stone and cement. JMHO….Was ground penetrating radar used to rule out the patio? Who installed that patio? When? When was the order placed?”
iwabwu Posted above: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:09 pm
“I have expectations that the Dutch are still reviewing and working this case. Perhaps they along with Peter DeVries will find evidence of a cover-up, conflict of interest, collusion, nepotism, cronyism, etc.”
Suggestions, Wabbi: Jossy Mansur’s Diario newspaper has an online discussion board where you could post your questions about the patio, and ask that they send an investigative reporter to interview whoever installed the patio.
And e-mail Peter De Vries through his website www.peterrdevries.nl/ and ask him to interview the Dutch Justice ministry on the use of ground penetrating radar on the patio.
Then let us know the results.
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Location: State of Jefferson, Ecotopia
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| tulsad
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:26 pm |
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Apodixis - how kind of you to find this information for Wabbi! It is truly inspiring to see the members of a board offer support to each other in the never-ending quest for answers.
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Sparkly Tree
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| obsidian
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:35 pm |
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| apodixis wrote: | iwabwu Posted above: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:46 pm
“Who installed that patio? …. From what I recall reading, it was installed within the days after Natalee's disappearance. It was installed just days before the limited search of Joran's living space. It could be as simple as Natalee being buried under the stone and cement. JMHO….Was ground penetrating radar used to rule out the patio? Who installed that patio? When? When was the order placed?”
iwabwu Posted above: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:09 pm
“I have expectations that the Dutch are still reviewing and working this case. Perhaps they along with Peter DeVries will find evidence of a cover-up, conflict of interest, collusion, nepotism, cronyism, etc.”
Suggestions, Wabbi: Jossy Mansur’s Diario newspaper has an online discussion board where you could post your questions about the patio, and ask that they send an investigative reporter to interview whoever installed the patio.
And e-mail Peter De Vries through his website www.peterrdevries.nl/ and ask him to interview the Dutch Justice ministry on the use of ground penetrating radar on the patio.
Then let us know the results. |
Ordinary people not involved directly or indirectly in a case - just because of "caring" or "curiosity" cannot possibly ask such things as you suggest!
WOW. Kind of dizzying just to read this. This is an opinion place - an interest discussion; I mean 
I presumed you were being sarcastic.
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| K_Meine
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:53 pm |
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YIF,
You make some valid points. Had Beth contacted the authorities immediately upon learning Natalee had gone missing, things may have been different. More importantly, why wouldn't Beth contact the local authorities first? There must be a reason behind that other than just plain lunacy. Was this maybe not the first time SOMETHING LIKE THIS happened? Was there ever any confirmation of ANY conversations between Natalee and Beth while Natalee was in Aruba?
Unfortunately, Beth's motives still shine on to this day. I think she was initially upset that people would find out she wasn't the mother she purported to be and thus went after Joran et al for thinking they took away the opportunity for her to disprove that. The idea that Natalee apparently never called to even simply say "Hey Mom I made to Aruba and we're having a nice time" speaks volumes of their relationship. There is plenty of blame to go around in this case and Beth is no exception. The effects of this case appear to have hurt way to many people unnecessarily. I do hope Beth will some day soon accept responsibility for her actions and that the person(s) responsible for making NH disappear will take responsibilty for theirs. That's a big problem in the world today. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions, it always someone or something made me do it. Lincoln said it well "You can’t escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today." So take your medicine and let's move on.
As I've stated before, I don't condone what Beth has done or said, but she didn't crash the party. She was invited.
Last edited by K_Meine on Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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| iquitos
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:56 pm |
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if joran and the kalpoe brothers had
anything to do with natalee's disappearance, the worst thing she could do was track them down in the middle of the night and tip them off to the trail they had left so they could start erasing any other evidence that night before the cops zeroed in on them. granted the cops were there that night. but would it not have been better to bring them in cold or even have a talk with paulus first and have him prevail upon joran to tell the truth from the outset rather than be placed immediately a defensive postion being called names and blamed for kidanpping natalee by a bunch of disrespectful bozos from alabama?
i think at least his involvement would have come out in a different light. and he would not have to bear the burden of not saying where he left natalee up front, although there are indications that he in fact did. personally, i don't think it would have helped. natalee was long gone by the time anybody bothered to raise the alarm first with senior hotel management and security and then through the hotel with the authorities at a high level to tell them natalee was having a good time but was otherwise a careful and responsible person or to tell tham there were conflicts in the family that were of sufficient magnitude to raise the possibility that natalee might attempt to run away, or that there were reasons why somebody might want to kidnap her or somebody in the group who looked like her.
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| iquitos
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:58 pm |
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who ever started the party
the posse did bad by coming in there in a reenactment of sherman's march.
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Location: in my mind's eye
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:39 pm |
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| K_Meine wrote: | YIF,
You make some valid points. Had Beth contacted the authorities immediately upon learning Natalee had gone missing, things may have been different. More importantly, why wouldn't Beth contact the local authorities first? There must be a reason behind that other than just plain lunacy. Was this maybe not the first time SOMETHING LIKE THIS happened? Was there ever any confirmation of ANY conversations between Natalee and Beth while Natalee was in Aruba?
Unfortunately, Beth's motives still shine on to this day. I think she was initially upset that people would find out she wasn't the mother she purported to be and thus went after Joran et al for thinking they took away the opportunity for her to disprove that. The idea that Natalee apparently never called to even simply say "Hey Mom I made to Aruba and we're having a nice time" speaks volumes of their relationship. There is plenty of blame to go around in this case and Beth is no exception. The effects of this case appear to have hurt way to many people unnecessarily. I do hope Beth will some day soon accept responsibility for her actions and that the person(s) responsible for making NH disappear will take responsibilty for theirs. That's a big problem in the world today. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions, it always someone or something made me do it. Lincoln said it well "You can’t escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today." So take your medicine and let's move on.
As I've stated before, I don't condone what Beth has done or said, but she didn't crash the party. She was invited. |
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Was this maybe not the first time SOMETHING LIKE THIS happened?
ITA, and was this reason that she wanted to keep it quiet, retrieve Natalee, and be on their way? This would explain the alleged lighthearted banter between the Fab 7 on the plane to Aruba. They believed that she had gone off, and they came to believ that she had gone off with Joran or that he knew where she was. Beth did not want this known. It is sort of like crying wolf once too often, and it is so regrettable. How different things may have ended up, even it would only be the resolution of the mystery.
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 10465
Location: France
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| apodixis
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:53 pm |
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| obsidian wrote: | | apodixis wrote: | iwabwu Posted above: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:46 pm
“Who installed that patio? …. From what I recall reading, it was installed within the days after Natalee's disappearance. It was installed just days before the limited search of Joran's living space. It could be as simple as Natalee being buried under the stone and cement. JMHO….Was ground penetrating radar used to rule out the patio? Who installed that patio? When? When was the order placed?”
iwabwu Posted above: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:09 pm
“I have expectations that the Dutch are still reviewing and working this case. Perhaps they along with Peter DeVries will find evidence of a cover-up, conflict of interest, collusion, nepotism, cronyism, etc.”
Suggestions, Wabbi: Jossy Mansur’s Diario newspaper has an online discussion board where you could post your questions about the patio, and ask that they send an investigative reporter to interview whoever installed the patio.
And e-mail Peter De Vries through his website www.peterrdevries.nl/ and ask him to interview the Dutch Justice ministry on the use of ground penetrating radar on the patio.
Then let us know the results. |
Ordinary people not involved directly or indirectly in a case - just because of "caring" or "curiosity" cannot possibly ask such things as you suggest!
WOW. Kind of dizzying just to read this. This is an opinion place - an interest discussion; I mean
I presumed you were being sarcastic. |
Not being sarcastic, and I have asked VC to provide a sarcasm emoticon so everyone can tell. Maybe we need an irony emoticon as well.
We can have an interesting intelligent discussion of the NH case here, if it is argued on the facts and evidence about such things as the patio scenario mentioned above.
The website which is the topic of this thread does a nice job of concisely collecting relevant information on the case in its page 7, titled “Just concentrate on the facts Watson” here: http://member.telpacific.com.au/rolyroper/NataleeHolloway/page07.htm
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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: State of Jefferson, Ecotopia
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:19 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | all10suspects wrote: | | yankee-in-france wrote: | | Absolutely, Apo, you cannot prove that you didn't do something. You cannot prove a negative. |
So J2K cannot prove that they dropped Natalee off at the hotel.
So J2K cannot prove they Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach.
So J2K cannot prove that Natalee was seen a live after getting into Deepaks car.
So if J2K cannot prove any of the above what does that mean for J2K?
Will J2K always be link with Natalee Hollway for ever?
Will Aruba and Natalee Holloway always be in the same article? |
It doesn't bother me that Natalee and Aruba are mentioned in the same article, it show that Teenagers will behave like teenagers, no matter where in the world they go, they might experiment with alcohol and continue their use of legal and illegal drugs.
J2K are in the same position as Beth, none can proof anything they said about Natalee. They both lied, but Beth kept on lying, bribed persons, officials, created false statements by purposely mistranslated them etc etc... even created a false image of her daughter. And yet there is not proof that Natalee is dead. |
Here is what I have learned from this case and still wonder about -
- Teenagers will be teenagers. However, in Aruba, there are forces that suggest it is the disappeared person's own fault if they disappear, irregardless of circumstances. The disappearance will remain a mystery - can't have tourism suffer. At home, I believe the police would look for those involved in the disappearance, and public officials would not be so quick to declare a 'mystery'.
- Does Aruba search for people disappeared in the water or on the beach? Why does it appear that there is a 10 day waiting period for serious searches and investigations? How much serious search time was lost by not confronting J2K immediately, when the HI drop off story was proven false? 5-7 days? Days that Natalee's body may have been recovered?
- If Aruba is no longer safe for the families of Natalee Holloway and others from Mountain Brook, is it safe for anyone?
- The investigation is not over. I have faith that those that disappeared Natalee Holloway are just a few rotten apples in the bushel. However, a few rotten apples have been known to spoil the whole bushel. Just my humble opinion.
What is the requirement for proof of death?
I believe evidence that she is deceased due to the fact that she has not been seen or heard from since getting into the Kalpoe vehicle with J2K. What evidence suggests she left that car alive?
What do lies by J2K suggest? What is wrong with the truth?
Would ALE invest so many resources looking for a corpse if they believed she was a runaway? Search the dunes? Search the beach?
Quote from Joran in the GVS interview -
(my bold for emphasis)
| Quote: | | VAN DER SLOOT: No evidence at all to prove anything, not to say that she's alive or not to say that something happened to her. I mean, deep down — deep down inside, I don't think — I don't know that she's — she's alive anymore. |
IIRC, he was reported to be the last one with her.
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6314
Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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| dugo
Posted:
Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:59 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: |
I believe evidence that she is deceased due to the fact that she has not been seen or heard from since getting into the Kalpoe vehicle with J2K. What evidence suggests she left that car alive?
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Nobody ever died from not not being seen. The owner/driver, the brother of the owner/driver and the friend of the owner/driver of the car all declare she left the car alive, nothing suggests she didn't, JMNSHO.
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Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
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