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MF
 Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:38 pm |
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| all10suspects wrote: | | Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
So its a 15 minute ride from Joran'a apartment to C&C. Since Joran says they left his apartment at 00:15.
At 1:18 the car is time stamped on a video store camera. Add
15 minutes to go to his apartment. By 1:33am they get to his apartment.
How long do they stay without going in?
They the go the to the lighthouse and do not get out of the car except
Deepak had to pee.
Is that enough time for Natalee and Joran to be at the beach at 1:50am
and for 2K to be home at 2am?
I think the timeline is kind of tight for all of that to happen! |
1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera.
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:41 pm |
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| all10suspects wrote: | | MF wrote: | | all10suspects wrote: | So Joran knows it was Natalee! No other
girl but Natalee! |
You starting to sound like Beth, just like she knew that Natalee was not a drinker, did not do drugs, was a virgin and that she knew she was getting into a cab....
And appologies in advance to having compared you to Beth.  |
Thats ok.
I just think if Joran was shown a picture of a girl he would know if it was her or not. |
I could have been in shock if I was shown a pretty almost perfect glamour picture of a person, and have to compare it to all lose, partying not glamourous image of a person I met for a short period the night before.... I might not recognized her immediately on the pic, eventhough I know we were talking about the same person....
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:43 pm |
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| Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
Are date stamps on camera's known to be reliable indicators of the time? Was there something else to verify the time?
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:43 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | all10suspects wrote: | | Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
So its a 15 minute ride from Joran'a apartment to C&C. Since Joran says they left his apartment at 00:15.
At 1:18 the car is time stamped on a video store camera. Add
15 minutes to go to his apartment. By 1:33am they get to his apartment.
How long do they stay without going in?
They the go the to the lighthouse and do not get out of the car except
Deepak had to pee.
Is that enough time for Natalee and Joran to be at the beach at 1:50am
and for 2K to be home at 2am?
I think the timeline is kind of tight for all of that to happen! |
1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera. |
Is Joran's latest statement still that they went to his apartment or did he ever repudiate that part of his statement?
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:45 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | all10suspects wrote: | | Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
So its a 15 minute ride from Joran'a apartment to C&C. Since Joran says they left his apartment at 00:15.
At 1:18 the car is time stamped on a video store camera. Add
15 minutes to go to his apartment. By 1:33am they get to his apartment.
How long do they stay without going in?
They the go the to the lighthouse and do not get out of the car except
Deepak had to pee.
Is that enough time for Natalee and Joran to be at the beach at 1:50am
and for 2K to be home at 2am?
I think the timeline is kind of tight for all of that to happen! |
1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera. |
Add a few minutes for cirlcing C&C and Royal Plaza and that makes the timeline even tighter for Joran to be at the beach at 1:50a.m. and 2K to be home at 2:00am
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:48 pm |
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| doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | all10suspects wrote: | | Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
So its a 15 minute ride from Joran'a apartment to C&C. Since Joran says they left his apartment at 00:15.
At 1:18 the car is time stamped on a video store camera. Add
15 minutes to go to his apartment. By 1:33am they get to his apartment.
How long do they stay without going in?
They the go the to the lighthouse and do not get out of the car except
Deepak had to pee.
Is that enough time for Natalee and Joran to be at the beach at 1:50am
and for 2K to be home at 2am?
I think the timeline is kind of tight for all of that to happen! |
1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera. |
Is Joran's latest statement still that they went to his apartment or did he ever repudiate that part of his statement? |
We can speculate, but it won't let Natalee reappear.... don't you think?
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:49 pm |
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| doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | all10suspects wrote: | | Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
So its a 15 minute ride from Joran'a apartment to C&C. Since Joran says they left his apartment at 00:15.
At 1:18 the car is time stamped on a video store camera. Add
15 minutes to go to his apartment. By 1:33am they get to his apartment.
How long do they stay without going in?
They the go the to the lighthouse and do not get out of the car except
Deepak had to pee.
Is that enough time for Natalee and Joran to be at the beach at 1:50am
and for 2K to be home at 2am?
I think the timeline is kind of tight for all of that to happen! |
1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera. |
Add a few minutes for cirlcing C&C and Royal Plaza and that makes the timeline even tighter for Joran to be at the beach at 1:50a.m. and 2K to be home at 2:00am |
Well, it all depends... how you want it to be, don't you think?
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:51 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: | | Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
Are date stamps on camera's known to be reliable indicators of the time? Was there something else to verify the time? |
Could have verified on eyewtiness' statements... a lot of security guards sitting around at that area.... couple of feet east of the jewelry store, people on street and security guard sitting at the bus station.
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:53 pm |
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| Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
| all10suspects wrote: | So its a 15 minute ride from Joran'a apartment to C&C. Since Joran says they left his apartment at 00:15.
At 1:18 the car is time stamped on a video store camera. Add
15 minutes to go to his apartment. By 1:33am they get to his apartment.
How long do they stay without going in?
They the go the to the lighthouse and do not get out of the car except
Deepak had to pee.
Is that enough time for Natalee and Joran to be at the beach at 1:50am
and for 2K to be home at 2am?
I think the timeline is kind of tight for all of that to happen! |
| MF wrote: | | 1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera. |
| doc wrote: | | Add a few minutes for cirlcing C&C and Royal Plaza and that makes the timeline even tighter for Joran to be at the beach at 1:50a.m. and 2K to be home at 2:00am |
| MF wrote: | | Well, it all depends... how you want it to be, don't you think? |
Would the parking lot area be near where Guido W. parks his car?
Would the camera be the one near the jewelery story? The grainy, dark, blurred images?
The images some suggest show Natalee Holloway in the front seat? Joran driving? Could that be Guido W.'s car?
Was this the parking lot that someone in a PV reported as empty except for Deepak's car?
(Edit to fix quote stack violation)
Last edited by iwabwu on Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:56 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | doc wrote: | | Is Joran's latest statement still that they went to his apartment or did he ever repudiate that part of his statement? |
We can speculate, but it won't let Natalee reappear.... don't you think? |
Dont know - if these in consistencies are paid attention to and if effort is still made to clarify what really happened - it might not bring Natalee back but it could wind up solving the mystery... dont you think?
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:57 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: |
Is that the grainy very indistinct picture? The one many speculate shows Natalee in the front seat, and Joran at the wheel?
Was that the parking lot near the casino Guido W. worked at?
Could that have been Guido's car?
ETA: Have any of the witnesses in the parking lot come forward?
I thought one of the PV's had someone state the lot was empty? Does anyone else remember that? |
Well, the only released part of the video, at that same point there are three or four different cameras. Many speculate, you mean the handful of monkeys, so be clear. Since when Guido worked at a parking lot? Did I miss that?
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:59 pm |
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| doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | doc wrote: | | Is Joran's latest statement still that they went to his apartment or did he ever repudiate that part of his statement? |
We can speculate, but it won't let Natalee reappear.... don't you think? |
Dont know - if these in consistencies are paid attention to and if effort is still made to clarify what really happened - it might not bring Natalee back but it could wind up solving the mystery... dont you think? |
No, it will not. Many information on the internet are just rumours, and are not facts, many are brought up or created by the Family that does not have information of the investigation and just a small part of the documents, which many were mistranslated and a few not even disclosed to you and others, remember the PV they had that acknowledges that Natalee had cocaine and did offer it to two other friends? So, I think, they want to believe what they want to believe and all other things dismissed, the reasons? Well, I think that is what we must clarify.
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:03 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | 1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera. |
Add a few minutes for cirlcing C&C and Royal Plaza and that makes the timeline even tighter for Joran to be at the beach at 1:50a.m. and 2K to be home at 2:00am |
Well, it all depends... how you want it to be, don't you think? |
No it doesnt depend - driving around C&C takes time and pushes the timeline back.
So - 1:18 leaving the parking lot
1:23 - 5 mins circling the block, then drive to Joran's
1:38 arrive at Joran's
1:42 leave Joran's assuming they stopped there only 5 minutes - unlikely
That leaves 8 minutes to drive to the lighthouse and back, with a stop for Deepak to pee, and make it to the beach by 1:50. I dont think that's possible, is it?
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:06 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | doc wrote: | | Is Joran's latest statement still that they went to his apartment or did he ever repudiate that part of his statement? |
We can speculate, but it won't let Natalee reappear.... don't you think? |
Dont know - if these in consistencies are paid attention to and if effort is still made to clarify what really happened - it might not bring Natalee back but it could wind up solving the mystery... dont you think? |
No, it will not. Many information on the internet are just rumours, and are not facts, many are brought up or created by the Family that does not have information of the investigation and just a small part of the documents, which many were mistranslated and a few not even disclosed to you and others, remember the PV they had that acknowledges that Natalee had cocaine and did offer it to two other friends? So, I think, they want to believe what they want to believe and all other things dismissed, the reasons? Well, I think that is what we must clarify. |
Ok, fine - whether or not Natalee did cocaine doesnt affect the timeline. And it doesnt clear up the inconsistencies among the chief suspects' still contradictory statements. Those inconsistencies are important and while they may not solve the mystery, they provide clues and direction. Among the inconsistencies mentioned - can you clear any of them up?
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:08 pm |
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| doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | 1.33 at his appartment? What happened about the circles they made around the CnC block and the Royal Plaza area.... Till where I know, 1.18 is when they left the Parkinglot area that was captured on this particular camera. |
Add a few minutes for cirlcing C&C and Royal Plaza and that makes the timeline even tighter for Joran to be at the beach at 1:50a.m. and 2K to be home at 2:00am |
Well, it all depends... how you want it to be, don't you think? |
No it doesnt depend - driving around C&C takes time and pushes the timeline back.
So - 1:18 leaving the parking lot
1:23 - 5 mins circling the block, then drive to Joran's
1:38 arrive at Joran's
1:42 leave Joran's assuming they stopped there only 5 minutes - unlikely
That leaves 8 minutes to drive to the lighthouse and back, with a stop for Deepak to pee, and make it to the beach by 1:50. I dont think that's possible, is it? |
I would not put 5 minutes at the house, since the ALE asked for witnesses and neighbors and cars that passed by that house at that time if they saw the car, and no saw it, so they might have gone there and in less than 30 seconds decided to move. And a windows of opportunity of appr. 5 minutes, it could be possible to make that journey, specially if you have a car that is not driven at a normal speed. Don't you think?
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:09 pm |
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Quote Stack Violation ~ edited by Fash
Last edited by MF on Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:12 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | doc wrote: | So - 1:18 leaving the parking lot
1:23 - 5 mins circling the block, then drive to Joran's
1:38 arrive at Joran's
1:42 leave Joran's assuming they stopped there only 5 minutes - unlikely
That leaves 8 minutes to drive to the lighthouse and back, with a stop for Deepak to pee, and make it to the beach by 1:50. I dont think that's possible, is it? |
I would not put 5 minutes at the house, since the ALE asked for witnesses and neighbors and cars that passed by that house at that time if they saw the car, and no saw it, so they might have gone there and in less than 30 seconds decided to move. And a windows of opportunity of appr. 5 minutes, it could be possible to make that journey, specially if you have a car that is not driven at a normal speed. Don't you think? |
So add 4 minutes - that gives them 12 minutes to drive from Joran's house to the lighthouse and back to the beach, stopping for Deepak to pee. Is that possible?
edited for quote stack.
Last edited by doc on Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:13 pm |
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| MF wrote: | | Unlike you, I am not representing any of the parties, I just normally try to clear up the lies that are put online... remember thsose? |
lol What lies can you clear up MF?
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:17 pm |
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| doc wrote: | | MF wrote: | | Unlike you, I am not representing any of the parties, I just normally try to clear up the lies that are put online... remember thsose? |
lol What lies can you clear up MF? |
Those that you and others using many nick put online.... remember those? There were many many posts, on RWV, RU, BFN and specially the monkey site....
LOL.
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:21 pm |
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Quote Stack Violation ~ edited by Fash
In your edited post, you added 4 minutes to one of the time.... very obvious of your inclination... but there are 4 different times we know of.... so plenty more time than just the 4 minutes you added.....
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:24 pm |
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[quote="MF"][quote="doc"]
Quote Stack Violation ~ edited by Fash | Quote: |
In your edited post, you added 4 minutes to one of the time.... very obvious of your inclination... but there are 4 different times we know of.... so plenty more time than just the 4 minutes you added..... |
Can you elaborate? What 4 different times - what timeline do you have that works out and give them enough time to do all the things they have stated at the times they stated. Honest question, MF.
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| MF
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:29 pm |
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[quote="doc"][quote="MF"] | doc wrote: |
Quote Stack Violation ~ edited by Fash | Quote: |
In your edited post, you added 4 minutes to one of the time.... very obvious of your inclination... but there are 4 different times we know of.... so plenty more time than just the 4 minutes you added..... |
Can you elaborate? What 4 different times - what timeline do you have that works out and give them enough time to do all the things they have stated at the times they stated. Honest question, MF. |
Remember that not all clock are in sync with each other, time stamp on digital camera can be up 5 min. off, but verified by others to be the approximate time, the video camera time stamp can be up to 5 minutes off from the digital camera but verified by others as being the approximate time, circling around the block could take from 2 minutes up to 10 minutes depending the traffic, but on a sunday night it would not take a lot. Time stamp on computer can be totally different from the servers at Setar and consequently also up to 5 minutes off on a cellphone record, so why only adding 4 minutes to one time? To fit your schedule? Honest question, Vivi.
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:44 pm |
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| Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
Is this the picture of Joran near the doorway? The one that's been on the net for years? Or, is this a new picture?
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| Glenda
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:48 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: | | Glenda wrote: | | J2K arrived at 12:33 am, there is a picture with a date and time stamp taken by a tourist and you can see Joran walking into CnC. When Joran arrived, he went to speak to his Lucky Charm (Ruth) and she acted not interest anymore, so he headed to the bar. |
Is this the picture of Joran near the doorway? The one that's been on the net for years? Or, is this a new picture? |
I guess so, the ALE got it on June 1st or 2nd.
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The Good Witch
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| doc
Posted:
Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:57 pm |
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[quote="MF"][quote="doc"] | MF wrote: | | doc wrote: |
Quote Stack Violation ~ edited by Fash | Quote: |
In your edited post, you added 4 minutes to one of the time.... very obvious of your inclination... but there are 4 different times we know of.... so plenty more time than just the 4 minutes you added..... |
Can you elaborate? What 4 different times - what timeline do you have that works out and give them enough time to do all the things they have stated at the times they stated. Honest question, MF. |
Remember that not all clock are in sync with each other, time stamp on digital camera can be up 5 min. off, but verified by others to be the approximate time, the video camera time stamp can be up to 5 minutes off from the digital camera but verified by others as being the approximate time, circling around the block could take from 2 minutes up to 10 minutes depending the traffic, but on a sunday night it would not take a lot. Time stamp on computer can be totally different from the servers at Setar and consequently also up to 5 minutes off on a cellphone record, so why only adding 4 minutes to one time? To fit your schedule? Honest question, Vivi. |
I added 4 minutes where you told me to. So give me a timeline - tell me how it happened and when because it looks awfully tight if not impossible.
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