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pax
 Posted:
Wed May 28, 2008 9:55 am |
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What's the best way to end the war while maintaining security?
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Wed May 28, 2008 9:59 am |
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| pax wrote: | | What's the best way to end the war while maintaining security? |
Training a well armed and ready security force in Iraq to take care of their own internal problems while beginning a pull out that is gradual. We must make the Iraqi government responsible for their own security and hold them accountable. We can continue to monitor the borders and gather intel from different sources and even keep advisors and some top brass at their disposal, but it is high time this government takes over their own force. We must put a high emphasis on this and if they do not, it will not continue to be our problem. We must, however, continue to monitor any true threats against us from any part of the world, including Iraq and Iran.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277
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| pax
Posted:
Wed May 28, 2008 10:26 am |
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| Need2Know wrote: |
Training a well armed and ready security force in Iraq to take care of their own internal problems while beginning a pull out that is gradual. We must make the Iraqi government responsible for their own security and hold them accountable. We can continue to monitor the borders and gather intel from different sources and even keep advisors and some top brass at their disposal, but it is high time this government takes over their own force. We must put a high emphasis on this and if they do not, it will not continue to be our problem. We must, however, continue to monitor any true threats against us from any part of the world, including Iraq and Iran. |
That's a good analysis, n2k. The Iraqi government should be accountable. Our troops have done a great job. And will continue doing so.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Wed May 28, 2008 10:49 pm |
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| pax wrote: | Chris Mathews:
I argue politics for a living. In the years after 9/11 there emerged a vulnerability in this country, exploited by some, to any criticism of government policy. Dissent made people nervous, even suspicious. This jumpiness inspired a mob-like attack on anyone who said anything that contains even a jolt of novelty, a spark of evidence that a mind somewhere might be getting out of line. Every week, it seemed, there was someone - Bill Maher, the Dixie Chicks - who had said something you’re not supposed to say,
How about this for a thought: arguing politics, arguing about the politics of foreign policy, especially, and, yes, whether the decision was right to invade and occupy Iraq was a smart move or not, whether it’s right to keep our forces there now, whether the whole “mindset” of this war is good for our country, is a matter of legitimate debate. Arguing what’s good for this country isn’t unpatriotic, speaking up and caring about what we’re doing in the world can be the very essence of patriotism. Trying to silence criticism is the very opposite of democracy.
http://hardblogger.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/19/1041446.aspx |
perhaps today we have greater numbers who will argue, just what our purpose is in iraq......not sure we can say the same thing, or that many would have argued during the last election....back then patriotism was, go get them!
http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=14841
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Thu May 29, 2008 6:59 am |
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We just need balance, as with all things. We must not forget that in that part of the world, we are enemy number one. Don't be a war monger, but don't forget national security either. Balance.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277
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| woebedamned
Posted:
Fri May 30, 2008 9:13 am |
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U.S. Army suicides rise 13 percent
The number of U.S. Army suicides increased again last year amid the most violent year yet in both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
An army official said Thursday that 115 troops committed suicide in 2007, an increase of almost 13 percent over the previous year's 102. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because a full report on the deaths was not being released until later.
About a quarter of the deaths occurred in Iraq.
The 115 confirmed deaths among active duty soldiers and National Guard and Reserve troops that had been activated was a lower number than previously feared. Preliminary figures released in January showed as many as 121 troops might have killed themselves, but some of the deaths were still under investigation then and have been attributed since to other causes, the officials said.
Suicides have been rising during the five-year-old war in Iraq and nearly seven years of war in Afghanistan.
The 115 deaths last year and 102 in 2006 followed 85 in 2005 and 67 in 2004. The only army records immediately available go back to 1990, and show no year with a higher number of suicides than 2007. The figure in 1990 was 102.
More U.S. troops also died overall in hostilities in 2007 than in any of the previous years in Iraq and Afghanistan. Overall violence increased in Afghanistan with a Taliban resurgence, and overall deaths increased in Iraq, even as violence there declined in the second half of the year.
Increasing the strain on the force last year was the extension of deployments to 15 months from 12 months, a practice ending this year.
The increases in suicides come despite a host of efforts to improve the mental health of a force stressed by the long and repeated tours of duty.
The efforts include more training and education programs, like suicide prevention programs and a program last year that taught all troops how to recognize mental health problems in themselves and their buddies. Officials also approved the hiring of more than 300 additional psychiatrists, psychologists and other mental health professionals and have so far hired 180 of them. They also have added more screening to measure the mental health of troops
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Damn it All!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:09 pm |
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President Bush regrets his legacy as man who wanted war
President Bush has admitted to The Times that his gun-slinging rhetoric made the world believe that he was a “guy really anxious for war” in Iraq. He said that his aim now was to leave his successor a legacy of international diplomacy for tackling Iran.
In an exclusive interview, he expressed regret at the bitter divisions over the war and said that he was troubled about how his country had been misunderstood. “I think that in retrospect I could have used a different tone, a different rhetoric.”
Phrases such as “bring them on” or “dead or alive”, he said, “indicated to people that I was, you know, not a man of peace”. He said that he found it very painful “to put youngsters in harm’s way”. He added: “I try to meet with as many of the families as I can. And I have an obligation to comfort and console as best as I possibly can. I also have an obligation to make sure that those lives were not lost in vain.”
The unilateralism that marked his first White House term has been replaced by an enthusiasm for tough multilateralism. He said that his focus for his final six months in office was to secure agreement on issues such as establishing a Palestinian state and to “leave behind a series of structures that makes it easier for the next president”.
Mr Bush is concerned that the Democratic nominee Barack Obama might open cracks in the West’s united front towards Tehran’s nuclear ambitions. At the EU-US summit in Slovenia, he pressed for tougher sanctions against Iran unless it agreed to suspend its uranium enrichment programme verifiably: “They can either face isolation, or they can have better relations with all of us.”
Mr Bush told The Times that when his successor arrived and assessed “what will work or what won’t work in dealing with Iran”, he would stick with the current policy.
Shaul Mofaz, a hardline Israeli minister, has suggested that a military strike on Iran is “unavoidable”. But Mr Bush said: “We ought to work together, keep focused. His comments really should be viewed as the need to continue to keep pressuring Iran.”
The President was keen to bind his successor into a continued military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq, but offered only cautious optimism about a recent decline in violence. Asked about corruption allegations dogging Hamid Karzai, the Afghan President, Mr Bush insisted: “I have found him to be an honest man.”
He also offered words of encouragement for another ally, Gordon Brown, whom he will meet on Sunday. He said that he needed no advice on coping with political adversity. He is “plenty confident and plenty smart, plenty capable — he can sort it out”.
But he delivered a thinly veiled warning to Mr Obama that his promises to renegotiate or block international trade deals were already causing alarm in Europe and beyond.
“There is concern about protectionism and economic nationalism,” he said. “Leaders recognise now is the time to get ahead of this issue before it becomes engrained in the political systems of our respective countries.”
Acknowledging that his refusal to ratify the Kyoto Protocol once created consternation in Europe, he said that there was now a recognition that that richer countries needed to “transfer out of the hydrocarbon economy”. He insisted, however, that any binding emission targets would have to include China and India to be workable.
The President knows that Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain will have to distance himself from the current Administration. "He's an independent person who will make his decisions on what he thinks is best."
Asked if the US is ready for a black president, Mr Bush says: "I think the fact that the Democratic Party nominated Barack Obama is a statement about how far America has come.
"Having said all that, it's going to be important for the American people to figure out who can handle the task of the 21st Century. It's a challenging job."
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:49 pm |
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Thanks Olympic. I like what President Bush said. The war was supported by many, and it's scapegoating to direct all the blame on one person. People who supported his policy at the time should consider their reasons for doing so. As N2K said, we need balance. Now that we're in it, let's determine the best course of action.
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| olympic
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:19 am |
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y/w pax!
his only regret is that people see him for what he is....this man has changed so much in the world in the worst possible way in so little time. .....he's even managed to divide his own nation and a nation divided is weak and confused.... hollow words george!
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:42 am |
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| pax wrote: | | Thanks Olympic. I like what President Bush said. The war was supported by many, and it's scapegoating to direct all the blame on one person. People who supported his policy at the time should consider their reasons for doing so. As N2K said, we need balance. Now that we're in it, let's determine the best course of action. |
I liked what he said too but what is it about common sense (like not using inflammatory rhetoric, i.e. Bring them on, etc.) that took him eight years to figure out. Is he looking for a more kindly critique by historians? He suddenly believes in diplomacy. Too little, too late ... JMO 
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: France
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| pax
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:16 am |
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| yankee-in-france wrote: |
I liked what he said too but what is it about common sense (like not using inflammatory rhetoric, i.e. Bring them on, etc.) that took him eight years to figure out. Is he looking for a more kindly critique by historians? He suddenly believes in diplomacy. Too little, too late ... JMO |
I'm curious why anyone believes John McCain's foreign policy would be any better.
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:21 am |
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| pax wrote: |
I'm curious why anyone believes John McCain's foreign policy would be any better. |
Serious question - do you really think you can be diplomatic with roque nations who's very existence and goal calls for is the destruction of Israel and who see the United States as standing in the way of that? How diplomatic do you really think you can be with a regime who support terrorism and who have seen that terrorism actually pays in this new world thinking?
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 9277
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| pax
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:30 am |
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| olympic wrote: | y/w pax!
his only regret is that people see him for what he is....this man has changed so much in the world in the worst possible way in so little time. .....he's even managed to divide his own nation and a nation divided is weak and confused.... hollow words george! |
He's had plenty of assistance from chickenhawk democrats.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:38 am |
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| Need2Know wrote: |
Serious question - do you really think you can be diplomatic with roque nations who's very existence and goal calls for is the destruction of Israel and who see the United States as standing in the way of that? How diplomatic do you really think you can be with a regime who support terrorism and who have seen that terrorism actually pays in this new world thinking? |
Diplomacy alone doesn't always work but it shouldn't be flatly abandoned. Solely launching preemptive strikes might increase, rather than decrease, the number of terrorists. I don't think Israel is at great risk, do you?
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:48 am |
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| pax wrote: |
Diplomacy alone doesn't always work but it shouldn't be flatly abandoned. Solely launching preemptive strikes might increase, rather than decrease, the number of terrorists. I don't think Israel is a great risk, do you? |
A great risk or At great risk? I firmly believe they are at great risk every single day. They have declared enemies hell bent on their destruction and without those rogue nations knowing that the U.S. backs Israel and their sovereign right to exist, they would have already attacked with weapons of mass destruction, no doubt about it.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:19 pm |
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At great risk. Sorry for the confusion, I edited while you were typing.
U.S. policy firmly supports Israel's sovereign right to exist. That is definite, regardless of who is President. One strike against Israel would result in total obliteration of where it originated. To me the question is, what is in the best interests of U.S. national security: military only, or both military and diplomatic tactics?
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:09 pm |
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| pax wrote: | At great risk. Sorry for the confusion, I edited while you were typing.
U.S. policy firmly supports Israel's sovereign right to exist. That is definite, regardless of who is President. One strike against Israel would result in total obliteration of where it originated. To me the question is, what is in the best interests of U.S. national security: military only, or both military and diplomatic tactics? |
Both, where diplomacy actually means something and where the regime is not simply doing a play on words and buying time to continue their very genuine efforts at getting their hands on a nuclear device and where their very religion calls for destruction of a perceived enemy. This is not about boundaries and territories to them, this is a fundamental and crazed idealogical thought process that ecompasses whole societies. We are evil and that is what they teach their youngsters. Their religion calls for ours and Israel's destruction, how do you have diplomacy with that?. I don't claim to know all, but based on my past experience, I do have some knowledge that the average person would not when it comes to military intelligence. If all Americans truly knew what these terrorist-minded regimes are attempting to accomplish, most people would have a different take and opinion on having any diplomacy with them and although unpopular, a tough, no-nonsense stance is necessary. This does not mean you are a war monger, but it does mean you know who and what you are dealing with at all times and do not let pressure from other nations or from within alter that reality.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:02 pm |
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I think we should distinguish the majority of muslims who want peaceful coexistence from the radical fundamentalists who encourage terrorism.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| olympic
Posted:
Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:24 am |
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power is a drug and the world seems to be run by addicts....imo
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:59 am |
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| pax wrote: | | I think we should distinguish the majority of muslims who want peaceful coexistence from the radical fundamentalists who encourage terrorism. |
Have you ever read the Koran?
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:07 am |
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| Need2Know wrote: |
Have you ever read the Koran? |
Yes. It's has peaceful stuff and violent stuff. Like the bible.
Do you think all muslims should be murdered?
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:05 pm |
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| pax wrote: |
Yes. It's has peaceful stuff and violent stuff. Like the bible.
Do you think all muslims should be murdered? |
The Koran is not "like" the Bible at all. This is not a difference of opinion on our part, there is valid and incorruptible proof of that. I could fill up pages of personal PM's with you concerning this to show you very valid proof of that.
As to your second question, I wonder why you would ask such a thing.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:58 pm |
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| Need2Know wrote: |
The Koran is not "like" the Bible at all. This is not a difference of opinion on our part, there is valid and incorruptible proof of that. I could fill up pages of personal PM's with you concerning this to show you very valid proof of that.
As to your second question, I wonder why you would ask such a thing. |
I ask because you seem to be saying muslims are bad. Please clarify. I believe the majority of muslims want peaceful coexistence. No pm's please. It is a difference of opinion on our part. In my opinion. 
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:32 pm |
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| pax wrote: |
I ask because you seem to be saying muslims are bad. Please clarify. I believe the majority of muslims want peaceful coexistence. No pm's please. It is a difference of opinion on our part. In my opinion. |
pax, sorry I took so long to get back to this thread. When Islam was broke, it could be dismissed as simply an attempt to impose the culture of seventh century Arabia upon the ignorant and disenfranchised. However, now enriched by oil revenues, in control of the heroin trade, and armed with nuclear weapons, Islam can no longer be ignored. We must understand the origin, agenda, and methods of this movement agressively committed to our destruction.
It is astonishing to observe the myths about Islam that have propagandized in the media and by the politically correct pronouncements of our government. There continues to be a widespread unwillingness to address the realities of this legacy of hate and the agenda of its leaders.
There are certain myths of Islam. Myth #1 is that Islam is a religion of peace. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Koran is a warrior code committed to global conquest--by the sword if necessary. More than one hundred verses in the Koran advocate the use of violence to spread Islam. In the Koran, Allah commands Muslims, "take not Jews and Christians as friends...Slay the idolaters (non-Muslim) wherever ye find them...Fight against such...as believe not in Allah...(Surah 5:51; 9:5, 29, 41) This is official Islam; it cannot change without admitting that Muhammad was a false prophet and murderer.
Myth #2 - "Islam is a religion of love". Hardly. There is not one verse in the Koran that commands us to love anybody or anything. In contrast, Jesus summarized the entire Bible in just two verses from the Old Testament (the "Great Commandments"): "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might" (Deut. 6:5) and "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" -Lev.19:18-
Myth #3- "Allah is the same as the God of the Old Testament." Nothing could be further from the truth. Allah is presented as one who might do anything; in fact, he is presented as capricious. Read that as untrustworthy. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob delights in making AND keeping His promises.
Despite propaganda to the contrary, Allah is not the Arabic name for God; it is the proper name for a specific god: the moon god. The crescent moon adorns mosques throughout the world. When the Koran is translated into any other language, the name Allah is not translated.
Rioting Muslim mobs inavariably chant in their "fanaticism" "Allah Ackbar! Alah Ackbar! Ackbar is usually mistranslated great; however, it is comparative, not absolute; greater. Greater than whom?
Myth #4 - "The Koran is compatible with the Bible." The Koran is an amalgam of non-Biblical myths that are not ony inconsistent with the Bible, they are even self-contradictory. The enemies of Islam--both Jews and Christians--are referred to in the Koran as "the People of the Book." (I personally will GLADLY subscribe to that identity anytime and any place).
Myth #5 - "Islam venerates Jesus Christ". Anyone who believes that is totally ignorant of the claims of both.
There are numerous other errors and inconsistencies, but they all derive from these. pax, we, you, I, our friends and loved ones, cannot afford to live with our heads in the sand. World peace is also a myth, it will never happen. It only takes a person to seek the truth, especially the true Biblical truth, and he or she shall find it.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:31 pm |
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Thanks for your reply n2k.
I don't want our governement to spend our tax dollars fighting holy wars.
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