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| Has everyone excluded any wrong doing by 2k in this case? - Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 |
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minitess
 Posted:
Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:51 pm |
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Thanks Pat!
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 2283
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| Rolls
Posted:
Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:44 pm |
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Note: this last par over my nic is (I presume) Bubbles.
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I'd like to add and hope Jan will add to her book, that it is patently absurd for beth to even suggest natalee was not acting with free will, as some of her friends stated Natalee tried to get them to go with her and Joran but they refused. Natalee clearly wanted something from Joran. Drugs or sex or perhaps both. But the real evidence supports Joran did not harm Natalee, yet beth was so insistent and obsessed with Natalee's crotch being the heart of the matter, such that one must question the woman's sanity.
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'cause I didn't write that. My opinion is that the nub of the problem is that there is no "real evidence" either way.
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| Minitess wrote: |
There are two pieces that you've either forgotten, or deliberately ignored in putting together your hypothesis.
When the boys were seen in Deepak's car at the pond near the racquet club - the witness could only identify Deepak and Joran. Couldn't identify Satish as the 3rd person in the vehicle.
So that leaves the possibility of Satish being at home on the computer - while his brother is still with Joran.
Combine that with what Dilma said on O'Reilly about the cell's being tracked - and you've got Deepak out of the home after 2:30 am.
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Neither forgotten nor deliberately omitted. You are taking about the testimony of Cumpa I, "The Gardener". Apart from the fact that this observation was examined by a court and found wanting in credibility, the statement by the gardener has the same basic problem as all the other uncorroborated statements in this case.
ALE already had the cellphone records and it must have been plain to them that Cumpa was full of shit.
The comment of Dilma is unknown to me. So I did a search and found;
| all10suspects wrote: |
MrsJimiHendrix | Thursday, July 14, 2005 at 08:53 PM
Dilma Arends from Bon Dia in Aruba just reported that cell phone records place Joran arriving home at 4am (texting Deepak). Records show that Deepak did go home and then left again to go to the Marriott beach area.
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| luvslalom wrote: |
Aruba investigative reporter Dilma Arends elaborated on the Natalee Holloway investigation, implying that Aruba authorities may have a stronger case than many people realize. "Aruba authorities have been using cell sites and the cell phone batteries to determine the movement of the boys involved. For example, they were able to determine that Joren Van Der Sloot got home at 4 AM. So I think they have more proof than they are telling us." The Factor asserted that Arends' claims will provide comfort to Natalee's family. "What you just told us makes a difference to the Holloway family because it gives them some hope. There should be a way for the government to get more information to the family that is not going to damage the case."
http://www.billoreilly.com/show?action=viewTVShow&showID=363&dest=/pg/jsp/community/tvshowprint.jsp
eta: Dilma, like many others, has changed her tune. By the time the Vanity Fair article was in progress she had gone anti-Beth. Other than Beth's constant bashing on TV, one has to wonder about all the "late" changes of views several months later.
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"Batteries"? Obviously an electronics expert. 
Indeed ALE did "have more proof" than we knew at that stage because they had the cellphone and ISP records. But then nobody would seriously offer the implication above as "evidence" with a straight face. The only actual fact asserted is that Joran "got home at 4am", but this has to be taken against a detailed phone/ISP timeline that only became available much later.
From the Monkey cage thread...
| Minitess wrote: |
Sadly, there has been so much purposeful misinformation bandied about that the real facts (few though there may be available to us) have been lost or spun out of control.
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In fact luvslalom has quoted correctly, and there is no mention of Deepak at all as you conflated above.
-Rolls
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1821
Location: Australia
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| all10suspects
Posted:
Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:56 pm |
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If Deepak did not hang out with Joran later on that night for 4 hours I would say all he did was drive them to the beach. Because they were together again for 4 hours I think they had some stuff to do! Add Paul never looked for Joran after dropping him off at the club. But Paul did look for him and picked hip up at 11pm on a Sunday night. Paul must have forgot that Joran had school Tuesday and did not care what time he came home!
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 6357
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| resigned
Posted:
Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:07 pm |
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Is there a hearing today or was that postponed?
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Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28611
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
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| Rolls
Posted:
Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:34 pm |
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| all10suspects wrote: |
If Deepak did not hang out with Joran later on that night for 4 hours I would say all he did was drive them to the beach. Because they were together again for 4 hours I think they had some stuff to do!
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Despite a long exposure, I am finding your assertion-conclusion "logic" increasingly hard to follow.
| all10suspects wrote: |
Because they were together again for 4 hours
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On what, exactly, do you base this assertion?
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Here is this bind again; these efforts to point the finger at Deepak have the incidental effect of pointing the finger away from Joran. This is advocacy, not investigation.
In this case the very same records that tend to incriminate Joran also tend to exonerate 2K. These represent two views of the same data, much as a piece of paper has two sides, and is a hair you cannot split. You have to learn to live with it.
Within this limitation (i.e. excluding 2K from the critical events) there are still a very wide range of possibilities from murder through suicide to accident and misadventure. It's just highly unlikely that, to take for example one of your ideas, Deepak "knocked" Natalee with his car on the beach.
And if center stage is the huts, then it seems obvious from the total lack of any trace that Natalee vanished by/into the water. Kile and co on the LGT (Little Green Tub) obviously agree with me on that point. (Took 'em long enough to recognise the bleedin' obvious but; then they concentrated on the wrong area)
When confronted with a problem there are, generally speaking, three very different ways of trying to solve it.
Chaotic - this is where elements are thrown together randomly and without consideration in the blind hope that something will produce the desired answer. This is typical of blind panic and infantile logic.
Arse-about-face - this is where you start with the desired conclusion and try to select, warp, or even invent, "facts" to make a supporting argument that justifies the pre-conclusion. This is typical of much political and religious thinking.
Conventional - this is where you start by gathering all the known facts and information, then trying to assemble them working towards a conclusion that is consistant both with itself, and with the outside world (Venn's "tout la monde").
It is the latter mode which has put us on the moon and given us i-phones. I use it because it is "unreasonably effective", and I commend it. 
-Rolls
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1821
Location: Australia
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