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resigned
 Posted:
Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:04 pm |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: |
No, not at all. Is that important for the case? I don't think it's a deliberate lie. Maybe Satish didn't pay attention who actually bought the drinks. Deepak ordered two drinks so he assumed his brother also paid for them. |
Do I think it is important? No- but I don't think that a lot of things are important to the case - like whether Beth was a "true" Christian woman wanting to know what happened to her daughter or whether she was a "pretend/convenient" Christian woman wanting to know what happend to her daughter.
Joran being the last known person to be seen with Natalee is far more important in my opinion than whether Beth had an alleged DUI in sometime in her life.....to me, stuff like that is kind of not relevant as to what happened on Aruba in the wee hours of May 30, 2005.
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"Our Pat"
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| Linda in L.A.
Posted:
Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:45 pm |
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Ok so this is what ticks me off. It has gone from drugs are not illegal in Aruba to ok, soft drugs are tolerated in Aruba if you don't flaunt them to being asked if marijuana isn't legal in California with a doctor's note. Huh??? What the heck does what is legal in California have to do with this case?
BT...so basically it is NOT legal in Aruba...just tolerated correct? Must be...that's pretty much what you and Hannie said and thank you both for your posts to straighten that out.
Secondly, BT...Joran may or may not have been telling the truth about how much alcohol he can drink...but who are you are anyone but Joran to say let's just change it to 5-10 glasses and then go on to say that would mean he would still have less than Natalee. Geeeez...don't you see what you are doing when you say that?
Doc Tar...I hope I misunderstood your post. Surely you don't think it should depend on how much a person has to drink a particular night as to whether they should or shouldn't be judged as good or bad.
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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| Black-Tulip
Posted:
Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:57 pm |
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| Linda in L.A. wrote: |
Secondly, BT...Joran may or may not have been telling the truth about how much alcohol he can drink...but who are you are anyone but Joran to say let's just change it to 5-10 glasses and then go on to say that would mean he would still have less than Natalee. Geeeez...don't you see what you are doing when you say that?
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No, I don't see it. And I don't like your insinuation either. Where did I say he drank less than Natalee? You missed the point completely.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:10 pm |
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| resigned wrote: |
Could be . It may also mean that Satish is cheap - who doesn't care who pays, he just knows it's not him.  |
he WAS providing the wheels.
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| resigned
Posted:
Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:41 pm |
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| iquitos wrote: |
he WAS providing the wheels. |
I thought it was Deepak's car.....do they share everything?
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"Our Pat"
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:56 am |
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its called reciprocity
i provide the car you buy the fuel.
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Joined: 26 Mar 2006
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| resigned
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:26 am |
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Re: its called reciprocity
| iquitos wrote: | | i provide the car you buy the fuel. |
I know what it is - does Satish?
Joran called Deepak at work - Deepak asked Satish if he wanted to go along. It was Deepak's car and Joran's money - what did Satish bring to the party - is he the comical one? Doesn't seem like he was needed at all - a tag-a-long.
btw, Deepak and Satish are not one entity.
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"Our Pat"
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:48 am |
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her book reviewed
A waste of time, May 12, 2009
By Charles C. Ratcliff "charlie ratcliff"
Beth Holloway has some nerve entitling her book "the True Story" about anything. The truth is, we still don't know what happened to Natalee and Beth cannot provide any answers or evidence to support her rather outrageous theories. But she still puts it all out there as if she has proven anything at all. And that is my biggest problem with her book. She doesn't just tell us what she experienced, she draws conclusions about her experiences and tells them to us as if these were the only possible explanations for the things that happened to her. Invariably, her conclusions are the worst possible scenario that one could ever derive from the actual events and they demonstrate that Ms. Holloway was really too emotionally involved to be able to grasp what was happening around her.
Bottom line, the people of Aruba were very, very good to the family of Natalee Holloway while they were on Aruba searching for answers. And the Aruban government and police invested more in this case than any government and/or police agency in the entire history of law enforcement. But it wasn't good enough for Ms. Holloway and, therefore, she has been on a mission to punish the entire island of Aruba. This book is an extension of that mission.
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Joined: 26 Mar 2006
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:49 am |
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Re: its called reciprocity
| resigned wrote: |
I know what it is - does Satish?
Joran called Deepak at work - Deepak asked Satish if he wanted to go along. It was Deepak's car and Joran's money - what did Satish bring to the party - is he the comical one? Doesn't seem like he was needed at all - a tag-a-long.
btw, Deepak and Satish are not one entity. |
I really don't know. joran used deepak. maybe he brought satish along for protection. or maybe there was an expectation they would score.
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| Hannie
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:34 am |
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BTW, did the 'Old Beth' smoke weed? 
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li'l Shango's Mommy
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| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:43 am |
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Natalee drank excessively that last day, and the excessive drinking IMO did result in her death while in Joran's presence and was bad judgment on her part. How many amongst us have never drank too much in their lives? Most of us live, Natalee didn't, because IMO, added to her excessive drinking, she did get in a car with three young men and two of them allege that Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach, never to be seen or heard from since.
I don't understand beating up on Natalee for getting in the car with Joran. She had met Joran before. Many Brookies who had met him thought that he was a nice guy. It is a safe island. Why was it so terrible that she get in the car with Joran? She trusted him. He wasn't some guy that she had just met ten minutes before they left. Other Brookies saw them leave together. If she didn't return, the Brookies knew who she was last seen with .. which was a bit of a safety net. Why is Natalee bad for getting in a car with three young men who were good young men? Joran is either bad or good. He can't be bad when Natalee got in the car with him and good when he left her dead on a beach and/or disposed of her body. IMO.
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YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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| Linda in L.A.
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:10 am |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: |
No, I don't see it. And I don't like your insinuation either. Where did I say he drank less than Natalee? You missed the point completely. |
BT...I don't know what insinuation you saw...because I say what I think...I don't insinuate it. What point did I miss that you were trying to make then? What you said about let's make it less drinks changed the facts of what Joran said. Personally, I think Joran was saying what the most was he had ever had to drink in one day, but he said what he said and he has never felt the need to change it.
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| Linda in L.A.
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:15 am |
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| yankee-in-france wrote: | Natalee drank excessively that last day, and the excessive drinking IMO did result in her death while in Joran's presence and was bad judgment on her part. How many amongst us have never drank too much in their lives? Most of us live, Natalee didn't, because IMO, added to her excessive drinking, she did get in a car with three young men and two of them allege that Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach, never to be seen or heard from since.
I don't understand beating up on Natalee for getting in the car with Joran. She had met Joran before. Many Brookies who had met him thought that he was a nice guy. It is a safe island. Why was it so terrible that she get in the car with Joran? She trusted him. He wasn't some guy that she had just met ten minutes before they left. Other Brookies saw them leave together. If she didn't return, the Brookies knew who she was last seen with .. which was a bit of a safety net. Why is Natalee bad for getting in a car with three young men who were good young men? Joran is either bad or good. He can't be bad when Natalee got in the car with him and good when he left her dead on a beach and/or disposed of her body. IMO. |
YIF...I pretty much agree with you. I don't see calling Natalee bad for getting into the car...but I also don't think its something I would have done. Maybe with some other friends with me (and that certainly wouldn't have made it any safer if there had been a danger) but guess I'm just more cautious then that. Still...wouldn't make me bad or good.
I agree with you Natalee drank a lot. And I still believe she died because of that. If she did...she's responsible for her own death, but not her disappearance.
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| Black-Tulip
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:50 am |
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| yankee-in-france wrote: | Natalee drank excessively that last day, and the excessive drinking IMO did result in her death while in Joran's presence and was bad judgment on her part. How many amongst us have never drank too much in their lives? Most of us live, Natalee didn't, because IMO, added to her excessive drinking, she did get in a car with three young men and two of them allege that Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach, never to be seen or heard from since.
I don't understand beating up on Natalee for getting in the car with Joran. She had met Joran before. Many Brookies who had met him thought that he was a nice guy. It is a safe island. Why was it so terrible that she get in the car with Joran? She trusted him. He wasn't some guy that she had just met ten minutes before they left. Other Brookies saw them leave together. If she didn't return, the Brookies knew who she was last seen with .. which was a bit of a safety net. Why is Natalee bad for getting in a car with three young men who were good young men? Joran is either bad or good. He can't be bad when Natalee got in the car with him and good when he left her dead on a beach and/or disposed of her body. IMO. |
Natalee thought it was a taxi.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| resigned
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:58 am |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: |
Natalee thought it was a taxi. |
....we only gave that girl a lift back to the hotel Mom ( like a taxi)
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"Our Pat"
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| prolific
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:31 am |
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| Linda in L.A. wrote: |
YIF...I pretty much agree with you. I don't see calling Natalee bad for getting into the car...but I also don't think its something I would have done. Maybe with some other friends with me (and that certainly wouldn't have made it any safer if there had been a danger) but guess I'm just more cautious then that. Still...wouldn't make me bad or good.
I agree with you Natalee drank a lot. And I still believe she died because of that. If she did...she's responsible for her own death, but not her disappearance. |
I agree as well, I always find it funny to see people say it's her own fault, she should have known better than to get in a car with strangers cosidering those strangers were J2K.
As an adult I can sit here and say girls should never do that and I tell my 15 year old daughter the same thing but I remember back when i was in my late teens, early 20's when we would drive over to Jersey from Philly because the drinking age there was 18, I remember how exciting it was meeting guys our age from different places, some actually wound up being boyfriends or good friends, I can remember being invited to parties, driving with guys we had just met even going off alone...... same thing with going with girlfriends on vacation to Florida, meeting people our own age, I can still remember my gf and I went out on dates while we were there with two different guys we had met. And no it had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to get laid.
Now I can look back and think that was really dangerous but teens, young adults, meeting other teens, young adults don't see it that way. They
were her age and the prime suspect lied and told her he was a tourist staying at the same hotel. It's not like they were 50 year old geezers.
And I would bet that there's a lot more people that have done the same things when they were teens whether they'll admit it now or not. Even dabbling in drugs.. 
And to be honest I'm not 100% sure that her death was because of her drinking that day, according to the statements how much had she drank that particular day, she was walking and talking in C&C, hell even the prime suspect said she was fine. If someone is going to die from alcohol poisoning, they're not fine one second and dead the next.
Last edited by prolific on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:40 am |
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it is questionable that
natalee had even "met" joran prior to ruth shoving him in her direction at the club. she may have locked her radar on him but she didn't know him from adam. natalee was drunk. her judgement was impaired. none of her contemporaries on the scene except kissel thought it was a good idea to get in that car. at least one even tried to stop her.
it is never a good idea for an impaired person to go off with strangers.
it took months for the speech therapist to admit her daughter ever drank or that she went voluntarily (drunk) with these guys. she had her (own) reputation to protect. what is amazing to me is that nobody admits did anything about it until the next morning after getting up late. therein lies the real story imo.
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:42 am |
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| Hannie wrote: | | BTW, did the 'Old Beth' smoke weed? |
according to wang booze was her drug of choice.
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| resigned
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:17 am |
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Re: it is questionable that
| iquitos wrote: | natalee had even "met" joran prior to ruth shoving him in her direction at the club. she may have locked her radar on him but she didn't know him from adam. natalee was drunk. her judgement was impaired. none of her contemporaries on the scene except kissel thought it was a good idea to get in that car. at least one even tried to stop her.
it is never a good idea for an impaired person to go off with strangers.
it took months for the speech therapist to admit her daughter ever drank or that she went voluntarily (drunk) with these guys. she had her (own) reputation to protect. what is amazing to me is that nobody admits did anything about it until the next morning after getting up late. therein lies the real story imo. |
Why would anyone know or look for her right off the bat in the morning if she went home with a guy she thought was staying at their hotel? They'd wait until she came to them. Did Beth ever admit that Natalee went voluntarily with "these guys" or did Natalee voluntarily go with Joran in what she thought was a taxi. How drunk was she? If she was passed out/nodding off when they passed the HI , then why continue to the access road by the Marriott? Who wants to take someone that is having trouble staying awoke for a walk on the beach instead of just dropping them off at their hotel that was just passed......therein lies the real story. IMO
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"Our Pat"
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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| resigned
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:21 am |
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| iquitos wrote: |
according to wang booze was her drug of choice. |
....and yet not one photo with so much as a beer bottle in her hand?  at least not one that hasn't been photoshopped.
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"Our Pat"
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| Seraph
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:08 pm |
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| Hannie wrote: | | BTW, did the 'Old Beth' smoke weed? |
Hannie, I believe she did it with skinny lips and a roach clip, to reduce unsightly finger stains. Oh, and she didn't inhale.
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Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:57 pm |
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Re: it is questionable that
| resigned wrote: |
Why would anyone know or look for her right off the bat in the morning if she went home with a guy she thought was staying at their hotel? They'd wait until she came to them. Did Beth ever admit that Natalee went voluntarily with "these guys" or did Natalee voluntarily go with Joran in what she thought was a taxi. How drunk was she? If she was passed out/nodding off when they passed the HI , then why continue to the access road by the Marriott? Who wants to take someone that is having trouble staying awoke for a walk on the beach instead of just dropping them off at their hotel that was just passed......therein lies the real story. IMO |
how could anyone know what natalee thought? i thought she was missing and nobody had seen or talked to her since joran left her on the beach, turned her remains over to daury, or sold her to the old guy with the boat. the speech therapist is not in a position to know she left voluntarily or not. there is however no indication it was otherwise. by all accounts she drank more than enough to be real drunk. unless they have talked to her, how can anyone do you know where they went or for what except from the mouths of the three stooges? according to joran, she wanted to go on a ride. according to deepak she refused to get out when offered the opportunity. nobody knows the whole real story. except maybe natalee who has not reported in. it is preposterous to suggest they had no reason to go after her when she drove off with strangers. there is ample testimony to the effect they would never let her do that.
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Joined: 26 Mar 2006
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:00 pm |
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| resigned wrote: |
....and yet not one photo with so much as a beer bottle in her hand? at least not one that hasn't been photoshopped. |
$17,000 worth of beer? I think she is a cocktail type with her references to "establishments" like the one where she met the travelling salesman.
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| K Hemingway
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:31 pm |
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I hear she's a real lounge lizard.
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Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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| ghost
Posted:
Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:37 pm |
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| DocTar wrote: | | It's not boys vs girls, Sarge...it's if you are so drunk that you leave a bar with strangers then it's your bad. |
In that case this is just as much Joran's bad as Natalee's of course as he also left the bar with a stranger. Better yet, according to him, HE did it sober. What's the excuse now?
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