Man on Dutch tv told how Joran stole from him.

[yankee-in-france]

IMO, The media just isn't interested in the thoughts and opinions of those investigators, OR...they have been threatened to not share those thoughts and opinions if they want to keep their jobs.

100% my feelings on this!
As for our media, it is much better to follow the J2k did it story, that has sold well and why change now?

But if just one tiny little legitimate crack in the J2K did it story were to surface ... (I am always hopeful) then look out because the media would change horses so fast that our heads would spin. I hope that some day that is what happens.

At this point, it doesn't seem that the media still believes that the Kalpoes were involved in Natalee's demise or have additional knowledge. The media, American or otherwise, follows the Joran connection because that is the only one they have, and for the time being, the lights are still on Joran. If something new develops, the media will go wherever the story goes.

[yankee-in-france]

joran should not have let the kalpoes swing in the wind, if he was what was holding them.

he should not have told the HI story and fooled the kalpoes into parroting it.

the rest is speculation. there is no known proof she is dead by natural or any other cause.

how do you dispose of a body so thoroughly it is never found nor any traces of it or the tools and vessels you used to do it. no witnesses, and silent accomplices. this seems to be above the paygrade of a 17 year old sporter with a lazy streak or his wonkish dad.

this rivals the mafia in sophistication. fooled the dutch cops, the fbi, the dutch marines, ale, skeeters, ward, wood, mammana, van susteren, and scopus and even texas eqqusearch!

Yes, Iquitos, it is mind-boggling that this arrogant smug 17 year old was able to pull this caper off. I think that he finds it so as well and attributes it to luck. It is almost like some of his antics are cries for help. Stranger things have happened.

[Guest]

I don't think Joran has fooled anyone, ALE simply doesn't have the evidence it needs to convict him...........yet...

[Black-Tulip]

I don't think Joran has fooled anyone, ALE simply doesn't have the evidence it needs to convict him...........yet...

Fooled his parents?

[Guest]

Fooled his parents?

I don't think so........

[GBMW]

delete

[yankee-in-france]

Last quote does not exists!

CK, I hear you, but if ALE only has the "Joran's admissions" theory, is it because that is where the evidence (circumstantial or tangible) points rather than an obvious bias against Joran? Dompig spoke of an accidental drug overdose. He said that they were guilty of something.

The judge said (according to Joran) that he [Joran] knew more than what he had said. While I understand and respect Joran's right to remain silent, what is it that Joran knows that he has not said? Law enforcement and judicial professionals believe he does. They must have something in their file and something that supports an accidental drug overdose.

I don't hold Joran responsible for Natalee ODing and dying in his presence. An event like that must have been traumatic for Joran but what is it about that theory that has people in a dither at the mere possibility that it could be true. As Bubbles said, what is he guilty of? If we set aside the moral issues, he is not guilty of murder or rape. He is at worst legally guilty of disposing of her body himself or having knowledge that someone else did.

If we don't consider anything other than what is supported by competent evidence, then there is no reason for us to be here because we do not know what the evidence is. Discussing possibilities does not equate to wanting vigilante justice or not believing in IUPG, and yet it seems that it is fair game to make mountains out of a freckle but dare not say anything that Joran might have a bigger part in this sad case.

I will never understand the passions generated by this case on both sides.

[Black-Tulip]

From Patricks blog:

In a restaurant in New York my spokesman informed her (meaning Beth) that I did not want to claim the $ 250,000 reward, but that I would love the boycot of Aruba to stop.

Misschien kan je hem voordragen voor een lintje?

Maybe you can recommend him for a royal decoration?

eta: (It's queensday after all)

[GBMW]

delete

[resigned]

Misschien kan je hem voordragen voor een lintje?

[GBMW]

delete

[Black-Tulip]

[SavannahStar]

Yes, Iquitos, it is mind-boggling that this arrogant smug 17 year old was able to pull this caper off. I think that he finds it so as well and attributes it to luck. It is almost like some of his antics are cries for help. Stranger things have happened.

To me it's mind-boggling for anyone to believe this "arrogant smug 17 year old" was able to pull this caper off!

[all10suspects]

To me it's mind-boggling for anyone to believe this "arrogant smug 17 year old" was able to pull this caper off!

Not if he had help from the top cop and the judge who made rulings on this case. Both who happen to be the arrogant smug 17 year old fathers friends. Did he know before hand he would never get in trouble?

[Heli]

Not if he had help from the top cop and the judge who made rulings on this case. Both who happen to be the arrogant smug 17 year old fathers friends. Did he know before hand he would never get in trouble?

And, of course, the invaluable assistance and protection from The Hague.
You musn't forget that Joran and his family are to be saved harmless
from all prosecution by order of Queen Beatrix!!!

[yankee-in-france]

He certainly knew that his father was an attorney and that whatever he did, he would have good legal counsel. I don't think that he knew beforehand that he would never get in trouble, but he sure managed to do it, didn't he?

[resigned]

And, of course, the invaluable assistance and protection from The Hague.
You musn't forget that Joran and his family are to be saved harmless
from all prosecution by order of Queen Beatrix!!!

I don't think that many, if anyone believes that the Hague or the Queen is involved. Now...attorneys/prosecutors working in the same offices...Maybe a lead officer or two that may have just kept the vdS family abreast of the situation... maybe look over this way instead of that way....I think that is possible anywhere in the world, especially where communities are close-knit.

[Heli]

I don't think that many, if anyone believes that the Hague or the Queen is involved. Now...attorneys/prosecutors working in the same offices...Maybe a lead officer or two that may have just kept the vdS family abreast of the situation... maybe look over this way instead of that way....I think that is possible anywhere in the world, especially where communities are close-knit.

Beth claimed in several interviews long ago that the coverup and
protection of the van der Sloots had to extend all the way up to The
Hague. At the time she was telling the world the van der Sloots had
abandoned their home in Aruba and run back to The Netherlands and
"how could they afford such a move?" .... then came the accusations
about protection and subsidy from The Hague.

You have to give Beth this much: she's got more gall than most and
to accuse The Hague ( Reina Beatrix ) on international teevee speaks
to the nature of her character, not to mention her morals and values!

[yankee-in-france]

-- maybe Heli, she had something going on in her personal life that we don't know about and when Natalee went missing and no one seemed to have the answers, it was the final straw. She may have said things that perhaps at another time, she wouldn't say.

[Black-Tulip]

-- maybe Heli, she had something going on in her personal life that we don't know about and when Natalee went missing and no one seemed to have the answers, it was the final straw. She may have said things that perhaps at another time, she wouldn't say.

Then why not apologize?

[Heli]

-- maybe Heli, she had something going on in her personal life that we don't know about and when Natalee went missing and no one seemed to have the answers, it was the final straw. She may have said things that perhaps at another time, she wouldn't say.

YIF, I completely agree with you and for the first few months, I afforded
Beth every allowance, but as time went on it became apparent to me
that something was drastically wrong with her and the entire scenario
created by her squad from the outset.

Yes, I do think she had something going on in her personal life and most
of it had to do with Natalee and Jug individually. Having a missing
child does not give anyone license to speak and behave as she has for
3 years. Her pass expired with me on or about July, 2005 when I
discovered what a liar she was and how there'd been a propaganda
machine in place from the outset ...

[Heli]

Then why not apologize?

Because she's simply not sorry for any of it!

[billybob]

Not if he had help from the top cop and the judge who made rulings on this case. Both who happen to be the arrogant smug 17 year old fathers friends. Did he know before hand he would never get in trouble?

But this is where you are way off base - he does not have those kinds of connections. There is no top cop or judge that has that kind of power close to Joran's family. You are just assuming things based on rumors that are not true.

[yankee-in-france]

I would agree with that. She probably isn't sorry. She feels wronged by everyone and everything. She doesn't choose her friends wisely. She has done many things differently than most of us would, but she is the person who lost her daughter.

I feel badly for the people of Aruba and the country because I do believe that they did their best to solve the mystery. I also think that they spoiled her with all the freebies. Perhaps, if she hadn't been given free lodging and free food, she would not have stayed very long.

I just feel that there is a difference between Beth's bad behavior and Joran's bad behavior.

[yankee-in-france]

But this is where you are way off base - he does not have those kinds of connections. There is no top cop or judge that has that kind of power close to Joran's family. You are just assuming things based on rumors that are not true.

He does have connections, BB. Paul was an attorney and a judge-in-training. It is a small community. As I said, Joran would never be without counsel. I am not suggesting that Paul's colleagues would break the law to help him out, but come on, favors are done every day of the week. It is not what you know, but who you know. Knowing people in the legal/justice field is a plus for anyone.