Who told Steve Croes the HI story?

[iquitos]

putting things in statements or omitting them for the purpose of eliciting information from the interrogated person. the statements are rarely verbatim transcripts. i don't see the issue there.

[minitess]

natalee being dropped off at the hotel. the camera was not working. it is clear from the question that joran had let the cat out of the bag. they knew the dropoff was elsewhere.

Unfortunately, that is a myth that was propogated online. A room full of LE officers viewed it themselves, after Beth and Jug had viewed it.

Not to mention the HI security employees who all watched it as well.

[minitess]

putting things in statements or omitting them for the purpose of eliciting information from the interrogated person. the statements are rarely verbatim transcripts. i don't see the issue there.

I'm not sure who the "we" are you are referring to.

Remember - one of the biggest excuses for LE not detaining J2K for as long as it took was that they were waiting for audio/video recording equipment to arrive.

So naturally, all those interviews the PV's were derived from were recorded, no? That would definitely make for easier transcribing into a written PV.

[iquitos]

how do you know a room full of LE officers saw "it". Which camera view did they see? where do you get your information?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/nhf/member.t ... page07.htm

[all10suspects]

I'm not sure who the "we" are you are referring to.

Remember - one of the biggest excuses for LE not detaining J2K for as long as it took was that they were waiting for audio/video recording equipment to arrive.

So naturally, all those interviews the PV's were derived from were recorded, no? That would definitely make for easier transcribing into a written PV.

SO why were AJ and MJ arrested if the ALE had no audio/video stuff?
Seems the ALE did all they could to protect the Dutch guy!

[iquitos]

the video is there to prevent abuse.

[all10suspects]

the video is there to prevent abuse.

SO I guess the ALE had no problem abusing AJ and MJ. Anything to try and get them to say they did it. Anything to protect the Dutch boy!

[iquitos]

SO I guess the ALE had no problem abusing AJ and MJ. Anything to try and get them to say they did it. Anything to protect the Dutch boy!

you know why they were arrested. so do the mb folks. they laid a dime on them and they were a viable lead since they had had contact with the kids. quit making stuff up. the abuse i am referring to is physical abuse which neither has asserted.

[luvslalom]

putting things in statements or omitting them for the purpose of eliciting information from the interrogated person. the statements are rarely verbatim transcripts. i don't see the issue there.

Are you quoting Hemmingway there?

[luvslalom]

CNN
June 14, 2005 Tuesday
SHOW: NANCY GRACE 8:00 PM EST

BYLINE: Nancy Grace, Brooke Anderson, John Zarrella

GUESTS: Raymond Hultman, Maureen Orth, Robi Ludwig, Debra Opri, Joe Episcopo, Anne Bremner, Marc Klaas, Mickey John, Ann John, Julia Renfro

HIGHLIGHT: The Michael Jackson verdict is discussed. More information leads to more searching in Aruba.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, reverberations across the board from the stunning not guilty in the Michael Jackson child sex trial.
And tonight, breaking news in the search for Natalee Holloway, the 18- year-old American girl who vanished into thin air on her senior trip to Aruba. Tonight, we are live in Aruba with one of the men who landed behind bars in connection with the girl`s disappearance.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Tonight, breaking news in the disappearance of an 18-year-old Alabama beauty, Natalee Holloway. Two security guards behind bars since the get-go walk free tonight. The three young men who took Natalee from that Aruba nightclub remained in jail. Tonight, the search desperate for 18-year-old Natalee Holloway.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, new developments today here in Palm Beach, Aruba. Late this afternoon, we can report that for the last several hours, police have been looking at an area about 200 yards north of the Marriott Hotel, up the beach from the Marriott Hotel. That is an area they have been combing.

There is at least one police dog there. There is a boat in the water, we believe with a diver on that boat. They have been searching there, again, for several hours.

Now, apparently, that coming as information -- new leads that the police have been getting. And the latest information apparently comes from a couple of different sources now. What had happened was that one of the security guards, while he was in jail, was a couple of cells down from one of the three young men now being held. Well, the security guard had a conversation with one of these three young men, and this one man told the security guard, Listen, I apologize. You were wrongfully accused. We shouldn`t have accused you, and apparently related the story to the security guard of how they had dropped Natalee off with one of the three people, with the Dutch boy, some place near the Marriott Hotel. So that`s one reason why we believe police are searching that particular area now.

So the latest developments here, again, police are searching, oh, for the past several hours here an area that is a couple of hundred yards from the Marriott Hotel, about a mile-and-a-half from where we are, here at the Holiday Inn. What exactly they are searching for, if it`s anything in particular or just things in general, is unclear.

So now the focus, of course, will shift to the three young men who are in custody, the two Surinamese young men and the one Dutch boy. And of course, now authorities here are telling us that they have been formally accused with murder, manslaughter and the kidnapping with fatal results of Natalee Holloway. But remember, a formal accusation is not a charge. And in fact, no one in this case here, the security guards or these three youths, have been charged of anything yet. What police may have, as far as what their interrogations have been revealing to them, they`re not saying.

GRACE: Is it true, John, that blood was found in the car?

ZARRELLA: No, it was not. It came back that that was not blood at all. Don`t know what the substance was, but the FBI crime lab in Quantico was asked to take a look that the sample, take it out of that Honda, and it came back negative. It was not blood.

GRACE: Well, that`s very unusual. It seems to me that just common sense, logic, one of these three, as you call them, youths, has given some type of a statement, for there to be a formal accusation tonight of murder.

Quick break, everybody. We are live in Aruba and the latest in the Natalee Holloway case.

To tonight`s "All Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, David Nam, wanted in connection with the shooting death of an elderly man during a robbery in Philadelphia in 1996. Nam, 28, 6-1, 180 pounds, black hair, brown eyes, has the word "Nam" tattooed on his arm, the word "Cobra" on his back. If you have any information on Nam, call the FBI, 215-418-4000.

Please stay with us as we remember Marine Lance Corporal Thomas O. Keeling, 23 years old, an American hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICKEY JOHN, FORMER ARUBA SUSPECT: He told me that the story about dropping the girl off at the Holiday Inn was all made up.
QUESTION: Why? Why would they make it up?

MICKEY JOHN: Because he told me, apparently, that no one -- somebody`s missing, like a young tourist person missing. They find him, like, a few days after at some crack house or with some beach bum. So they thought they would find her three days after. When push come to shove and they couldn`t get her, they decided to target-shoot. He told (ph) his brother (INAUDIBLE) target-shoot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: As you know, two security guards released from behind bars in Aruba in a desperate search for Natalee Holloway. And tonight, from Aruba, Mickey John. He is one of the two young men released in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Also with him, his mother, Ann John.

To both of you, thank you for being with us. First to you, Mickey. When did you learn you were going to be released from jail? *

MICKEY JOHN: I have to talk?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MICKEY JOHN: Around quarter to 10:00 PM last night.

GRACE: Mickey, how do you think you got mixed up in this to start with? Why did they arrest you?

MICKEY JOHN: I don`t really know. I think it just mixed identity of -- I don`t know. I don`t know how they come to the conclusion.

Nobody told me why I`ve been arrested, how they got the clues that been linked up to me. Nobody explain to me.

GRACE: Mickey, where were you at the time of Natalee Holloway`s disappearance?

MICKEY JOHN: According to (INAUDIBLE) the time she disappeared, I was home, sleeping, I think.

GRACE: At your mom`s house?

MICKEY JOHN: Yes, ma`am. At my mom`s house.

GRACE: Mr. John, I know that you were in jail with the brothers. Did they tell you what happened with Natalee?

MICKEY JOHN: Like, I (INAUDIBLE) opportunity to speak to one of the brothers, which calls himself Deepak.

GRACE: What did he say happened? What did he say happened to Natalee?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he say happened?

GRACE: Mickey...

MICKEY JOHN: He said that -- yes? Go ahead, please.

GRACE: Yes. What did the brother tell you happened to Natalee?

MICKEY JOHN: He told me that they picked her up -- he, his brother, a Dutch guy, picked her up at Carlos and Charlie`s, drove down to the lighthouse. On the way back, he dropped Natalee with the Dutch guy close to the Marriott, and he and his brother went home.

He went on line. And like, hour later, the Dutch guy sent him a text message on his cell phone, saying that as soon as he got home, he will talk to him on line.

GRACE: Do you have any idea how you got tangled up in this? Do you think the other three gave police your name?

MICKEY JOHN: The three suspects?

GRACE: Yes.

MICKEY JOHN: No. No. They didn`t place my name. (INAUDIBLE) made a story up. Deepak explain to me that the fact I`ve been involved with my colleague because they made the story up of dropping the girl off at the Holiday Inn because all something made up. They say the girl was never been dropped off at the Holiday Inn.

GRACE: So if they did not drop her off at the Holiday Inn, where did they tell you they dropped her off?

MICKEY JOHN: Like I told you before, he told me that he dropped the missing girl and the Dutch guy close to the Marriott Hotel.

GRACE: Oh, I see. I see. Van Der Sloot. Were you behind bars with Van Der Sloot?

MICKEY JOHN: No, ma`am.

GRACE: Mr. John, what do you believe happened to Natalee Holloway.

MICKEY JOHN: I have no idea, ma`am.

GRACE: To Mickey`s mother, Ann John. Ms. John, thank you for being with us.

ANN JOHN, MICKEY JOHN`S MOTHER: Thank you, too.

GRACE: Ms. John, do you believe that your son was arrested in the disappearance because of race?

ANN JOHN: No, I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t really say that. What I`m trying to say that if they say the girl was picked up and put at the other end of the island, why are they coming to the other end of the island to look for evidence? That`s what I was -- I really want to know.

GRACE: Ms. John, does it upset you that your son was arrested while this judge`s son, Van Der Sloot, remained free?

ANN JOHN: Well, I think -- I think so because for the first or second day and the third day, I wasn`t hearing no names (INAUDIBLE) except the two ex-security guards.

GRACE: Did you always believe in your heart that your son would be released?

ANN JOHN: Well, I believe on the first and the second day, I was very well believed. But on the third day, I broke down because nobody told me they was going to bring him to the courts. I went to the CD. I wait for nearly an hour-and-a-half. Nobody

(INAUDIBLE) with my son. Nobody call me to said, Ann, he`s not coming. So at that time, I was going down. I said something is not going right.

GRACE: I want to go back to Mickey John. You know, Mickey, you told me that you actually spoke to one of the other three suspects that are still behind bars. It sounds to me like they made up the whole story to get out of trouble.

MICKEY JOHN: I guess so.

GRACE: Well, how does that make you...

MICKEY JOHN: Like I told you...

GRACE: How does that make you feel, since you were the one thrown behind bars because of their lie?

MICKEY JOHN: I feel very bad because I know I was innocent from the start, from day one. I know -- I never knew the girl. And I would never even think of hurting somebody, never in my life, never.

GRACE: Mickey, you know, a lot of people, including myself, thought it was very unusual that the three men that the took her from the bar remained free, while you ended up behind bars. What was it like for you, those many days you were behind bars, suspected in this girl`s disappearance? How did you feel?

MICKEY JOHN: I feel very bad because I know that they been trying to nail someone and let these guys out because they knew from day one that they be last -- the girl be last seen with these three guys. So to me, they should be the prime suspects. And they had no other right to attack nobody. (INAUDIBLE) that somebody else was linked up to the case, you go to the other person. But first thing should be done, you go to them first because they were last seen with the girl.

GRACE: Well, Mickey John, I could not agree with you more. And Ms. John, Ann John, Mickey`s mother, I know that you are so relieved and happy that your son is back home. Thank you to both of you for being with us tonight.

ANN JOHN: Yes, but can you please tell Ms. Holloway my heart goes out to her still. I`m still praying for her that she should find her daughter.

MICKEY JOHN: The same for me. My heart goes out to her. And I know God will help her. She will find her daughter. Justice will serve. Justice shall prevail.

GRACE: You know what? You two...

MICKEY JOHN: And God bless her.

GRACE: You two, that have been through so much, thinking of the Holloway family -- I will make sure that they know. Thank you again to the Johns.

MICKEY JOHN: Thank you very much.

ANN JOHN: Thank you.

MICKEY JOHN: You`re welcome.

GRACE: Quick break, everybody.

As we go to break, after becoming a victim of violent crime myself and prosecuting violent felonies, I have an objection about how Lady Justice is tricked and treated in our court system. Part of the proceeds of "Objection" go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Local news coming up for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of the "Mississippi Burning" trial tomorrow, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at Mark Degner, just 12 years old. Mark disappeared from his own elementary school in Jacksonville, Florida, February 10. If you have any information on Mark Degner, please contact the Jacksonville sheriff`s office, 904-630-0500, or go on line to Beyondmissing.com. Please help us.

Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. We are live in Aruba and the Natalee Holloway case. Let me quickly go to Julia Renfro. She is the editor-in-chief of "Aruba Today." Julia, thank you for being with us. So where does the investigation stand now?

JULIA RENFRO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "ARUBA TODAY": Well, from what I understand, the police are interrogating the three young suspects. And unfortunately, they`re not able to give us really any specific details on what is going on.

GRACE: You know, to Anne Bremner, it seems to me, with the release of the two security guards, they at least seem to be refining their case. Uh- oh! I think I`ve lost Anne Bremner. Let me quickly throw that to Joe Episcopo. Joe, are you with me?

EPISCOPO: Yes.

GRACE: Great. Don`t you think that by the announcement they`re releasing the two security guards that they seem to be refining their case?

EPISCOPO: Oh, yes. I think this is going to focus on the Dutch boy. He was the one that witnesses said they were -- was intimate with the girl -- more than one witness. Somehow or other, they went off on their own. He might have gone a little bit too far, it got rough, and somebody got killed.

GRACE: Yes. You know, everybody keeps saying "being intimate with." I don`t know that that`s exactly how the whole thing went down. Very quickly, to Marc Klaas. Final thought?

KLAAS: Well, you know, they have assassinated this girl`s character. They have fingered a couple of innocent men. They are responsible for her death. This is downright evil! I hope that justice comes, and I quite frankly think that Natalee`s mom is doing a brilliant job of orchestrating justice in this case.

GRACE: Robi Ludwig, 10 seconds left. I was so overwhelmed by Mickey John and his mom praying for the victim.

LUDWIG: Just really good people. And I`m just so thrilled when justice does come through.

GRACE: Everybody, I want to thank you for being with us tonight, especially my guests. But my biggest thank you, as always, is to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your home.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend

[luvslalom]

the cops knew on the 31st. joran apparently let it slip then denied it later. he didn't let the slaves know. the cops told them and they came clean. i think the cops knew from early on. that is why they arrested steve. they knew he was lying.

now, if one wants to find a van der sloot adult hand in all this, one will need something besides conjecture.

Not a "hand" in it, but knowing the truth likely...take a look at the P and W, and the Libelle shows. Paulus tells Anita per telephone that Joran was the last seen with Natalee. That would be wherever Natalee and Joran were dropped off, after.
They were pushing the HI story publicly, where all three would have been last seen with Natalee.

eta: Sorry, I got carried away. This doesn't pertain to how Steve knows, but I'll leave it anyway.

[Bubbles]

SO why were AJ and MJ arrested if the ALE had no audio/video stuff?
Seems the ALE did all they could to protect the Dutch guy!

Because the MB kiddies pointed to AJ and MJ. They claimed one tried to break into Nat's room. They would be logical suspects thanks to MB kiddies.

[Glenda]

GRACE: Ms. John, do you believe that your son was arrested in the disappearance because of race?

ANN JOHN: No, I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t really say that. What I`m trying to say that if they say the girl was picked up and put at the other end of the island, why are they coming to the other end of the island to look for evidence? That`s what I was -- I really want to know.

[resigned]

Not long after they were arrested June 5, the mother of Mickey John told CNN why she thought her son and his co-worker were detained.

"The problem is, and I will say it plain, they have a color question in Aruba." Ann John said.

As for Ann John's comments, they came from a mother grasping for an answer, Renfro said.

"What she's saying is there has to be a reason because she knows her son was not there," Renfro said.

"You just have to come up with something, because there really, really is no differentiation between the blacks and the whites here and the browns. ... Nobody gets preference in that regard."

Renfro said police arrested the black guards "because the three boys pointed their fingers at these two security guards, and they couldn't leave that out of the loop. There was no reason to believe the boys were lying."

[henk]

"The problem is, and I will say it plain, they have a color question in Aruba." Ann John said.

GRACE: Ms. John, do you believe that your son was arrested in the disappearance because of race?

ANN JOHN: No, I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t really say that.

Renfro said police arrested the black guards "because the three boys pointed their fingers at these two security guards, and they couldn't leave that out of the loop. There was no reason to believe the boys were lying."

MICKEY JOHN: No. No. They didn`t place my name. (INAUDIBLE) made a story up.

Are you saying Ann John and her son both are liars?

[resigned]

ANN JOHN, MOTHER OF SUSPECT MICKY JOHN: I say, lord, I cry unto thee.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ann John spends the day reading her Bible and watching the news. This image haunts her, the moment her 30-year-old son Micky was dragged handcuffed from the home they share on Aruba's eastern tip.

JOHN: If I saw him do it, I don't worry (INAUDIBLE). But I'm saying my son knows nothing, nothing, concerning this girl.

PENHAUL: Security guard Micky John and workmate Abraham Jones are accused of murder, manslaughter, and kidnapping in connection with the disappearance of teen Natalee Holloway. This is the picture mother Ann prefers to keep in her mind, happy at times a few Christmases ago.

JOHN: I know to myself, my son will never, will never, will never put himself in this kind of a situation.

PENHAUL: She says her son likes playing soccer, occasionally plays the slot machines at a local casino, but doesn't drink or smoke. Sitting out on a porch, Ann can't remember if her son went out the night Natalee disappeared.

Her other son, 10-year-old Jonathan (ph) still remembers the police squad burst into their home to arrest Micky last Sunday. They seized him around 7 a.m., rousting him from sleep, and confiscated items from his room. Ann hasn't felt up to going in there until now.

John was back in handcuffs again Wednesday after a judge ordered him and Jones to be held for eight more days while prosecutors gathered more evidence against them. Jones' mother, Cynthia, was outside the courtroom, though the hearing was eventually held at a police station.

CYNTHIA ROSALIE JONES, MOTHER OF SUSPECT ABRAHAM JONES: My son is innocent! And I will go down for it!

PENHAUL: Jones has a five-year-old daughter. His girlfriend, whose name is also Cynthia, says the couple went to a soul music festival on the night Natalee disappeared, then they went home together. CYNTHIA DE GRAF, GIRLFRIEND OF SUSPECT ABRAHAM JONES: He's always spending time with his daughter, with me. He's not going to do anything wrong to anyone. I don't know even why, why pick him?

PENHAUL: Micky John's mother believes she has the answer. Natalee had been staying in the glitzy west end of Aruba and was last seen with three young men from well-to-do families. John and Jones are from black immigrant families on the poorer industrial east end of the island dominated by white Dutch descendents.

JOHN: The problem is, and I will say it plain, they have a color question in Aruba. Because once you're black -- I'm in Aruba 26 years, I'm Aruban and I cannot and will not. They will call me (INAUDIBLE).

PENHAUL: There's another question, too. These men are accused of a killing, yet, so far, there's no public evidence to indicate that Natalee is dead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PENHAUL: Significantly, too, Anderson, the FBI dive team that had been on the island has now left the island. They never in fact went into the water. They say they were never given an area pinpointed to where they can search. And Aruban search and rescue teams have not been on the job today. They say too that the government is no longer indicating where they can effectively search

[resigned]

Lejuez told FOX News that he and his colleague Noriana Pietersz had been given witness statements from only the two Surinamese citizens.

"I'm very happy that they're expanding the investigation," Lejuez told FOX News on Thursday morning. "It shows they are not focusing anymore on my client and the other person in custody. It shows the police finally realize they're not going to get anywhere with these two people."The Kalpoe brothers told police that Van Der Sloot became intimate with Holloway at the California Lighthouse beach before they dropped her off at her hotel. They told police Holloway had been drinking heavily and was drunk, and then when she got out of their car in front of the Holiday Inn, she stumbled and fell to the ground.

When one tried to help her up, she pushed him away and said, "I can stand on my own!"

They say she then headed towards the lobby, and a black man in black pants and a black t-shirt escorted her inside.

The tape from the Holiday Inn lobby camera was reportedly checked by police but no images of Holloway were found, and the attorney says the security guard on duty from midnight on told authorities he never saw the teenager enter the hotel that night.

On Wednesday, a judge ruled that authorities had enough evidence to hold two former security guards arrested Sunday in connection with Holloway's disappearance.

At least one of the suspects, 28-year-old Abraham Jones, appeared in court in Aruba Wednesday morning. The other was identified as 30-year-old Mickey John.

Neither man has been charged with a crime, but both were being held on suspicion of first- and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping, the latter of which is invoked when a kidnapping victim is killed, according to their lawyers. According to Aruba law, only strong suspicion — not evidence — is necessary to continue holding a suspect.

"There is no reason to believe he's not telling the truth," Lejuez told FOX News Thursday morning, referring to his client, Jones. He added that Jones has repeated the same story to several people — that he was at a beach festival the night Holloway disappeared, then went home with his wife, where he slept until 7 a.m. the next day.

Lejuez dropped John as a client per a request from the prosecutor, who said it's not ethical for him to represent both clients. Whereas normally he would oppose such a move, Lejuez said, "in this case, considering the grave consequences it would have for the island of Aruba, I have ... deviated from what I normally do and honored their request to do so."

Pietersz, John's lawyer, said she spoke to her client in jail Thursday.

"I have decided not to demand the immediate release of my client," she said. "We prefer to let the prosecution investigate, confident that my client will be released by Wednesday" when a judge will decide whether to extend his detention.

Authorities may hold John and Jones without filing formal charges for up to 116 days, lawyers said. The two are Aruban citizens, though one is originally from Grenada. Family members insist the two men are innocent.

Judge J.S. Kuiperdal will review the case June 15 and every eight days after that if needed, officials said. Prosecutors asked that the defendants be kept in jail at least until June 15, when they hope to conclude their investigation.

Investigators must come up with some evidence to hold the suspects beyond that date.

Attorney general spokeswoman Vivian Van Der Biezan said she would check into whether Dutch law allows a charge of murder if no body is found.

[henk]

They say she then headed towards the lobby, and a black man in black pants and a black t-shirt escorted her inside.
quote]

I don't understand what you are trying to say resigned..
IIRC None of the three boys pointing a vinger at John and Jones... They made up A story about A security guard..
Or are you saying it IS a race thing?

[iquitos]

"large dark man" in his statement.

full excerpt:

PROCES - VERBAAL

We, Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Shaniro Baldrik KELLY, head agent and sergeant at the Korps Police Force Aruba, firstly called classified at the Atraco team last mentioned district 2, explain the following at the section to multi-prevention crime classified.

On Tuesday, 31 May 2005, around 15.30 interrogated and took a witness statement from the man named:

Deepak Sharma KALPOE

born in Surinam on October 06, 1983, of profession clerk (Cyberzone Internet Cafe Seaport Marketplace) and residing in Hooiberg number xxxx on Aruba.

This statement was given in papiamento and was translated by me, JACOBS, to Dutch, was put on record and sounds as follows; ...

...The last thing I saw was the girl walk up to a large dark man, who was wearing a black t-shirt and carried a “walkie talkie” in his hands. Joran told me also that the guard had taken over the girl and that we could drive away. Around 02.15 we had dropped Joran at his house then afterwards I drove with my brother to my house. We arrived at home around 02.30.

On your question if I can give you a better description of the large dark man, who had walked up to the girl from the lobby, I can tell you the following:
- he is approximately 1.85 meters tall;
- he has a heavy set body;
- he has close-cropped hair;
- he wore a black t-shirt;
- he wore a black cotton long trousers which most of the keepers use and
- he kept walkie talkie in its hands and according to me he spoke by means of the walkie talkie.
If I see the guard again, I will recognize him.

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no. ...

The cops already knew about the alternative drop off site, I think from Joran. The physical description looks like Deepak's work. Does it match Mickey? Note this reference is to ONE security guard, not two.

[all10suspects]

"large dark man" in his statement.

full excerpt:

...The last thing I saw was the girl walk up to a large dark man, who was wearing a black t-shirt and carried a “walkie talkie” in his hands. Joran told me also that the guard had taken over the girl and that we could drive away. Around 02.15 we had dropped Joran at his house then afterwards I drove with my brother to my house. We arrived at home around 02.30.

On your question if I can give you a better description of the large dark man, who had walked up to the girl from the lobby, I can tell you the following:
- he is approximately 1.85 meters tall;
- he has a heavy set body;
- he has close-cropped hair;
- he wore a black t-shirt;
- he wore a black cotton long trousers which most of the keepers use and
- he kept walkie talkie in its hands and according to me he spoke by means of the walkie talkie.
If I see the guard again, I will recognize him.

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no. ...

The cops already knew about the alternative drop off site, I think from Joran. The physical description looks like Deepak's work. Does it match Mickey? Note this reference is to ONE security guard, not two.

Are you saying the ALE already knew the hotel story was fake and
still arrested the guards?

[Emily]

"large dark man" in his statement.

full excerpt:

...The last thing I saw was the girl walk up to a large dark man, who was wearing a black t-shirt and carried a “walkie talkie” in his hands. Joran told me also that the guard had taken over the girl and that we could drive away. Around 02.15 we had dropped Joran at his house then afterwards I drove with my brother to my house. We arrived at home around 02.30.

On your question if I can give you a better description of the large dark man, who had walked up to the girl from the lobby, I can tell you the following:
- he is approximately 1.85 meters tall;
- he has a heavy set body;
- he has close-cropped hair;
- he wore a black t-shirt;
- he wore a black cotton long trousers which most of the keepers use and
- he kept walkie talkie in its hands and according to me he spoke by means of the walkie talkie.
If I see the guard again, I will recognize him.

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no. ...

The cops already knew about the alternative drop off site, I think from Joran. The physical description looks like Deepak's work. Does it match Mickey? Note this reference is to ONE security guard, not two.

I wonder if Joran told the "walked by the sea" story that first night...maybe to Williams, before he and Deepak had time to refine their story. Deepak added the guard bit which Joran wouldn't fully support but wouldn't deny (he settled for Deepak said he saw) and Deepak wouldn't support the walk by the sea so that was left out of their 31st witness statements.

[iquitos]

Are you saying the ALE already knew the hotel story was fake and
still arrested the guards?

read the statement. i think they arrested the two because they thought they were involved. when they determined out they were not, they let them go. meanwhile, they arrested the three. i am not in a position to second guess the police work. i trust they had their reasons for acting as they did. it is very possible the deepak statement had nothing to do with the arrest of the two. the physical description deepak gave does not appear to jibe with either Mickey or the other one.

[iquitos]

cops were onto the beach drop off as early as 31 May.

[Emily]

cops were onto the beach drop off as early as 31 May.

But did the police believe the walk by the sea happened. Maybe they thought it was just an attempt to decorate the lie and really Natalee was taken back to Joran's apartment. By trying to get them to admit to the beach visit maybe they were simply trying to find inconsistencies in their stories and or force them into an impossible timeline that would prove they were lying. ALE seemed pretty slow to do an extensive search of that beach as if they didn't really believe anything happened there.

[iquitos]

beach drop off was a possibility. it counters the complaint that the HI lie cut off a line of inquiry. it clearly did not. meanwhile, elizabeth ann reynolds was chartering a medjet and preparing to pull natalee out of a crackhouse. i don't know anything about when beach searches happened. i know the mb contingent chose to run to the airport rather than go look for natalee.