Video Natalee is Alive #2 YouTube

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Postby wanderer » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:49 pm

ghost wrote:
Only rich people can be bad. :wink: Rich is all relative. Are upper middle class families responsible for the welfare of the world all by themselves? Because that's what the majority of Mountain Brook is, including Natalee's family. Most people in Mountain Brook wouldn't be living a fraction of their lifestyle on the same salary in other parts of the country.

Except Mountain Brook hasn't been around long enough to be "real" old money.

Real old money in Alabama is in Mobile, not Mountain Brook, with the exception, I'm sure of a handful of families that migrated to Mountain Brook. Most of those little Crestline homes are owned by families and young couples who moved in when they got married to raise their kids their.



What exactly is Old Alabama Money and how was it accumulated? :?


ALABAMA

From statehood (1819) until the end of World War II, nothing influenced Alabama's economic, social, and political life more than agriculture. Before the Civil War, climate, soil, and market demand fostered cotton cultivation, which brought with it slavery and a paternalistic social order. After the war, white and black tenant farmers replaced slave labor, the price of cotton dropped, and grass-roots agrarian unrest followed. Government and business interests combined to gain control of agricultural policy during the early twentieth century, which they retained through the end of World War II. By that time, mechanization, rural to urban migration, and crop diversification had altered Alabama agriculture, but farm and forest products remained central to the state's economy and those who had an economic interest in them still had a political voice as strong as any.
Extensive white settlement of Alabama followed the War of 1812 and the defeat of the Creek Nation. Most of the settlers came from North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia, pushed by land exhausted through the over-cultivation of cotton and drawn by the rich soil of the Tennessee Valley and the Black Belt. They brought with them slave labor and the plantation system, which were readily transplanted in Alabama. Steady demand for cotton made this product the nation's leading export during the first half of the nineteenth century and solidified the planter elite's sense of self-importance. On the eve of the Civil War, however, Alabama was only one generation removed from the frontier and most of the state's farmers owned few, if any, slaves.

After the war, tenant farming replaced slavery as the state's primary source of agricultural labor. This system suited itself to the state and the region's lack of capital. It provided work for landless laborers who knew farming but had no other skills, no means to acquire them, and no money to invest in land and equipment. It required the landlord to provide the tenant with a share of the crop rather than wages. It allowed the landlord to assume the role of furnishing merchant, which further reduced the tenant's share of the crop and required that even less money change hands. Simultaneously, the opening of the Suez Canal lowered the demand for southern cotton and a deflationary federal money policy worked to the disadvantage of tenants and other debtors.

These problems made Alabama ripe for the grass-roots agrarian reform movements that appeared in the United States during the later nineteenth century. These included the National Grange, primarily a social and educational organization, and the Agricultural Wheel, which advocated political action. The Farmers' Alliance was most significant of all, both in the state and the nation. Its platform called for nationalization of railroads and direct federal intervention in the commodity market. In Alabama both blacks and whites joined the Alliance, though local chapters generally remained racially separate. During the 1890s, the Farmers' Alliance developed into the People's or Populist Party which won some significant but short-lived victories at the national and state levels.

In 1914 the Smith-Lever Act created a network of county farm agents based in the nation's land-grant colleges. The Alabama Polytechnic Institute (later Auburn University) administered the state's extension service, with a separate black branch based at Tuskegee Institute that reported to the white state director in Auburn. Later, county home demonstration agents were added to the extension service corps. Agricultural demands created by World Word I strengthened the extension service. So did the appearance in 1920 of a state branch of the American Farm Bureau Federation, a private organization devoted to cooperative purchasing, cooperative marketing, and promoting the political interests of agriculture. Extension agents assisted in the organization and administration of the Farm Bureau at the county level. In this endeavor, the line between government and private enterprise was blurred as the Farm Bureau and the Extension Service became powerful political allies. Critics consistently charged that the Extension Service and the Farm Bureau showed little interest in tenants, devoted their primary attention to larger landowners, and discouraged other farm organizations, particularly the more militant Farmers' Union.

Diversification, mechanization, and migration became increasingly important factors in Alabama agriculture beginning in the early twentieth century. The Extension Service vigorously promoted crop diversification. The beef, forest, and poultry products they stressed eventually surpassed cotton in market value. Diversification was aided by the boll weevil, which made total reliance upon cotton even more precarious than it had been. Furthermore, large-scale and more mechanically efficient cotton production in western states reduced the South's share of the market. Migration of blacks out of the rural South represented a major demographic shift and eventually helped push the region from labor-intensive to capital-intensive agriculture. By 1920 Alabama had approximately the same number of black and white tenant farmers, with the number of blacks dropping and the number of whites increasing.

Following a World War I high, agricultural prices began to drop during the early 1920s. Farm prices had long been depressed when the stock market crashed in 1929. The New Deal provided landowners with federal support to reduce commodities. Consequently, they lowered the acreage under cultivation by evicting tenants. At the same time, they used federal funds to mechanize, fertilize, and produce more on fewer acres. During World War II, demand for farm products encouraged diversification and provided capital for mechanization. Urban employment opportunities also lured labor from the farm to the city, making mechanization imperative to meet wartime demands for farm products. From 1925 until 1945, Alabama agriculture underwent more change than it had in the previous one hundred years.

Various contemporary publications have documented the history of agriculture in Alabama. During the 1850s, the American Cotton Planter, published in Montgomery, advocated the reform of southern agriculture. The Grange, the Agricultural Wheel, and the Farmer's Alliance all issued Alabama-based publications. During the twentieth century, the Extension Service, the Farm Bureau, and various commodity groups have relied upon pamphlets, newspapers, and magazines to carry their message to Alabama farmers, voters, and politicians. These publications consistently reflect the state's major economic interests, as well as agricultural trends in the region and the nation.
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Postby WangChung » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:57 pm

ghost wrote:
Only rich people can be bad. :wink: Rich is all relative. Are upper middle class families responsible for the welfare of the world all by themselves? Because that's what the majority of Mountain Brook is, including Natalee's family. Most people in Mountain Brook wouldn't be living a fraction of their lifestyle on the same salary in other parts of the country.

Except Mountain Brook hasn't been around long enough to be "real" old money.

Real old money in Alabama is in Mobile, not Mountain Brook, with the exception, I'm sure of a handful of families that migrated to Mountain Brook. Most of those little Crestline homes are owned by families and young couples who moved in when they got married to raise their kids their.


Thanks for the pious Economics lesson. And I probably wouldn't be wrong in stating you don't even own your own home yet. :lol:
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Postby ghost » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:06 pm

WangChung wrote:
Thanks for the pious Economics lesson. And I probably wouldn't be wrong in stating you don't even own your own home yet. :lol:


As I am so often told, google is your friend. :D
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Postby WangChung » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:07 pm

ghost wrote:
As I am so often told, google is your friend. :D


Been there and done that. But you knew that already. :wink:
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Postby K Hemingway » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:13 pm

Which came first, the railroad, coal mines and steel mills of North AL, or the cotton fields and shipyards of Mobile? Both built on the backs of slave labor.

I've seen old money exist that in many places...and it can only be as old as the city/town. I don't think MB is not old enough to have it's 'own' old money.

Birmingham old money, perhaps. Birmingham's old money was driven in many ways by fortunes from outside the South. They had the mineral wealth, but until transportation and capital came together, they were generally tied to an agricultural economy. The civil war made the need to capitalize industrial development to manufacture the the weapons and armor needed to fight.

Mobile is SO different from Birmingham/MB. SO different in history, it's European ancestry, French as opposed to Scottish. Sure there a insular pockets of old money in certain areas in town in both places...but the similarities kinda end there.

Perhaps Mobile is insular to isolate itself from the rest of the state? I mean, at least people there are comfortable with liquor and porn, and the Baptist don’t rule.

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Last edited by K Hemingway on Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ghost » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:15 pm

K Hemingway wrote:Which came first, the railroad coal mine and steel mills of North AL, or the cotton fields and shipyards of Mobile? Both built on the backs of slave labor.

I've seen old money exist that in many places...and it can only be as old as the city/town. I don't think MB is not old enough to have it's 'own' old money.

Birmingham old money, perhaps. Birmingham's old money was driven in many ways by fortunes from outside the South. They had the mineral wealth, but until transportation and capital came together, they were generally tied to an agricultural economy. The civil war made the need to capitalize industrial development to manufacture the the weapons and armor needed to fight.

Mobile is SO different from Birmingham/MB. SO different in history, it's European ancestry, French as opposed to Scottish. Sure there a insular pockets of old money in certain areas in town in both places...but the similarities kinda end there.

Perhaps Mobile is insular to isolate itself from the rest of the state? I mean, at least people there are comfortable with liquor and porn, and the Baptist don’t rule.

Image


There is definitely old money in Mobile, though I in no way implied the entire city consists of it. Far from it.

Having known people in that minority, I know that many people that consider themselves "real old money" don't include Mountain Brook in that category.

By the way, not all people there are comfortable with either liquor or porn, and Baptists certainly don't rule Mountain Brook.
Last edited by ghost on Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sorry, but half of them are not middle class

Postby iquitos » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:16 pm

maybe not even a quarter of them or any at all.


...
According to 2000 Census figures, the median income for a household in the city was $100,483, and the median income for a family was $156,647 (these figures had risen to $126,586 and $157,159 respectively as of a 2007 estimate[8]). Males had a median income of $100,000 versus $39,770 for females. The per capita income for the city was $59,085. 0% of the population is below the poverty line.
Based on the latest data available, Mountain Brook is now one of the nation's 10 most prosperous communities, according to a University of Montevallo professor who has studied new Census Bureau figures. Stephen Higley, a professor of urban geography, maintains a Web site charting the nation's most affluent neighborhoods. Using recent numbers from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey, Higley says he has determined that Mountain Brook is America's ninth wealthiest community.That's based on his examination of average household income for communities with at least 20,000 residents. Household income averaged $210,089 in Mountain Brook, according to data compiled from 2005 to 2007.
The home ownership rate (owner-occupied housing units to total units) is 87.2%.
...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Brook,_Alabama
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Re: sorry, but half of them are not middle class

Postby ghost » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:19 pm

iquitos wrote:maybe not even a quarter of them or any at all.


Upper middle class, yes. The median income is around $100,000. That's hardly wealthy. People spend more on sweet sixteens :lol: . (Which I am currently watching).
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Postby K Hemingway » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:20 pm

ghost wrote:
There is definitely old money in Mobile, though I in no way implied the entire city consists of it. Far from it.

Having known people in that minority, I know that many people that consider themselves "real old money" don't include Mountain Brook in that category.


Because MB's not old enuff to HAVE "real old money." Did you even READ my post.

IMO, the only thing famous, unique or valuable about MB to ME...is when you put a D in front of the MB. Image
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Postby ghost » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:22 pm

K Hemingway wrote:
Because MB's not old enuff to HAVE "real old money." Did you even READ my post.

IMO, the only thing famous, unique or valuable about MB to ME...is when you put a D in front of the MB. Image


Yes, actually, as I've already said that many, many, many times. :D

(Did you even READ my post).

Good for you. Personally, I've been pointing out that it's average suburbia for a good while now.
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by no means middle class

Postby iquitos » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:23 pm

In 2007, the median annual household income rose 1.3% to $50,233.00 according to the Census Bureau.[3]The real median earnings of men who worked full time, year-round climbed between 2006 and 2007, from $43,460 to $45,113. For women, the corresponding increase was from $33,437 to $35,102. The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) was $26,036 in 2006.[4] In 2006, there were approximately 116,011,000 households in the United States. 1.93% of all households had annual incomes exceeding $250,000 ,[5] 12.3% fell below the federal poverty threshold[6] and the bottom 20% earned less than $19,178.[7] The aggregate income distribution is highly concentrated towards the top, with the top 6.37% earning roughly one third of all income, and those with upper-middle incomes control a large, though declining, share of the total earned income.[8][2] Income inequality in the United States, which had decreased slowly after World War II until 1970, began to increase in the 1970s until reaching a peak in 2006. It declined a little in 2007.[9] Households in the top quintile, 77% of which had two or more income earners, had incomes exceeding $91,705. Households in the mid quintile, with a mean of approximately one income earner per household had incomes between $36,000 and $57,657. Households in the lowest quintile had incomes less than $19,178 and the majority had no income earner.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_ ... ted_States
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Re: Video Natalee is Alive #2 YouTube

Postby Fashionista » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:24 pm

WordsofWisdom wrote:For prosterity
You tube:

Caption:
This is from another angle when she entered the gasstation. Again as you people can see, she was very nervous. She paid for a lot of phone cards. Soon there will be more videos online, when finally you can see her ........ Be ready the see the next video when she speeds away in a rented car.

Notice the recording time again...... I know its weird but be happy that she's outthere and ALIVE!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey9NlaITRe4&NR=1

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ey9NlaITRe4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ey9NlaITRe4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
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Postby iquitos » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Dante described vengeance as "love of justice perverted to revenge and spite".
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Postby K Hemingway » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:28 pm

ghost wrote:
Yes, actually, as I've already said that many, many, many times. :D

(Did you even READ my post).

Good for you. Personally, I've been pointing out that it's average suburbia for a good while now.


If you think of it as average suburbia, WTH do you tend to freak out when someone posts about it, like they can't possibly understand unless they've lived there?

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Postby ghost » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:37 pm

K Hemingway wrote:
If you think of it as average suburbia, WTH do you tend to freak out when someone posts about it, like they can't possibly understand unless they've lived there?

Image


I don't freak out, but I do refute the robot-baby-eating tales, and the portrayals of the town as something out of Faulkner.

By the way, iquitos, http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/58.html#l
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Postby Fashionista » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:41 pm

To: ALL of the master derailleurs


Back on Topic!



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Natalee Holloway is Alive!

Postby Slickster » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:01 pm

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Re: Natalee Holloway is Alive!

Postby ghost » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:04 pm

Slickster wrote:http://nataleeisalive.ytmnd.com/

:lol: :wink:


OMGZ!111!!!!!LOLZ! :lol: :D :) :( :shock: :o :? 8) :P
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Postby sarge » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:09 pm

ghost wrote:
Only rich people can be bad. :wink: Rich is all relative. Are upper middle class families responsible for the welfare of the world all by themselves? Because that's what the majority of Mountain Brook is, including Natalee's family. Most people in Mountain Brook wouldn't be living a fraction of their lifestyle on the same salary in other parts of the country.

Except Mountain Brook hasn't been around long enough to be "real" old money.

Real old money in Alabama is in Mobile, not Mountain Brook, with the exception, I'm sure of a handful of families that migrated to Mountain Brook. Most of those little Crestline homes are owned by families and young couples who moved in when they got married to raise their kids their.


ghost, my father and his family were from Birmingham. Mtn Brook was already there when my mother and father married in 1928. It is not as old as Mobile but still several generations old.
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Postby ghost » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:11 pm

sarge wrote:
ghost, my father and his family were from Birmingham. Mtn Brook was already there when my mother and father married in 1928. It is not as old as Mobile but still several generations old.


It's turn of the century...it's maaaaaannnnyyyy generations newer than Mobile.
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Postby Fashionista » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:13 pm

Back on TOPIC!
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Postby dugo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:57 am

Fashionista wrote:Back on TOPIC!


Which is? The youtube vid is obviously an april fools joke..
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Postby K_Meine » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:50 am

dugo wrote:
Which is? The youtube vid is obviously an april fools joke..


True Dugo, however, some have shown interest in believing its authenticity. This can be useful in determining whether to take what they say seriously or not. Frankly, I still find the Joran video with Patrick more believable than this one. Then again I could also study the face, movements and behaviors on Joran's video. This latest video wasn't as helpful. 8)
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Postby sarge » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:39 am

I don't see how anyone could watch Joran describe Natalee shaking and his description of his own reaction without believing it. Many did believe the original version that we followed right here. Later some chose to disregard it. His callousness and inhumane expression of her was very believable.
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Postby Gregor » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:26 am

sarge wrote:I don't see how anyone could watch Joran describe Natalee shaking and his description of his own reaction without believing it. Many did believe the original version that we followed right here. Later some chose to disregard it. His callousness and inhumane expression of her was very believable.


Not only didn't I believe the video, I can understand why Joran doesn't have any warm, fuzzy feelings for Natalee, or any of her family.
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