A renewed direction

[Knipoog]

Of all the people associated with this case the one you rarely hear about much is IMO the person who most likely knows of some very pertinent information or at least he said he did. That would be none other than Jan Van der straaten.


When he stated "This is murder, I've seen the evidence and you haven't?" you'd think someone might ask him what he meant by that.

Maybe Beth and Peter would be better off sneaking into his office for a chat instead of Castro Castro to see Joran. Then again maybe they are just as scared of him as Joran is. Me thinks a little pressure on Jan would do this case some good and if Jan were taken out of the picture Joran might feel a little safer about offering up some reality.

Oh yes we all are so scared of Jan like we are scared of the Panda.

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[resigned]

Oh yes we all are so scared of Jan like we are scared of the Panda.

Generalizations usually don't serve much of a purpose ~ There will always be people that prefer not to talk to the authorities for a variety of reasons. If you don't think so - then just ask the Panda.

[Knipoog]

Generalizations usually don't serve much of a purpose ~ There will always be people that prefer not to talk to the authorities for a variety of reasons. If you don't think so - then just ask the Panda.

But most of the time for the wrong reasons.

[resigned]

But most of the time for the wrong reasons.

How many good reasons are there to have to talk to chief of police?

So let me see if I got this right ---no one/not many/the proverbial "we"... on Aruba are not afraid to talk authorities because they are all so honest, but the ones who don't talk to authorities only do it for the wrong reasons?

Do that many people really know their police chief to be able to recognize them just walking down the street ( no uniform, of course).....Usually it is mostly the criminals and friends that hold that distinction. JMO

[resigned]

Aruba police quiz judge again

June 20, 2005


Police questioned an Aruba judge Sunday for the second day in a row in connection with the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway.

Police Commissioner Jan Van Der Straten said police questioned Judge Paul Van Der Sloot while his wife, Anita, visited their son, 17-year-old Joran, who is being held in connection with the case.

Van Der Straten dismissed as "completely false" media reports that police also had interrogated the judge's wife.

Joran Van Der Sloot is one of three people last reported seen with Holloway before she disappeared in the early hours of May 30.

<>

http://articles.cnn.com/2005-06-19/just ... ?_s=PM:LAW

....and Steve Croes - did he talk for the right reasons or the wrong reasons?

[Knipoog]

Stegve Croes is the renewed direction today?

[resigned]

Stegve Croes is the renewed direction today?

Not that I'm aware of - it is still van der Straten and what he knew and when did he know it. I was answering your question regarding who is and is and isn't afraid of talking to Jan van der Straten.

[Knipoog]

Quote Resigned:

"....and Steve Croes - did he talk for the right reasons or the wrong reasons? "

I don't see the connection with van der Straten.

[Knipoog]

But there must be a thread here about Steve Croes.
You can always read that one again.

Or start a renewed direction II thread about Steve.

[resigned]

Quote Resigned:

"....and Steve Croes - did he talk for the right reasons or the wrong reasons? "

I don't see the connection with van der Straten.

I was replying to your comment - the one after "Oh yes we all are so scared of Jan like we are scared of the Panda"


I said:


Generalizations usually don't serve much of a purpose ~ There will always be people that prefer not to talk to the authorities for a variety of reasons. If you don't think so - then just ask the Panda.


and then you said:

But most of the time for the wrong reasons.


So...... did Steve talk for the wrong reasons to authorities?

[Knipoog]

Sorry I still don't see the connection to van der Straten.

So I am not going to discuss Steve Croes here.

I am very scared of the cleaning departement.
They have a big mop.

[resigned]

Sorry I still don't see the connection to van der Straten.

So I am not going to discuss Steve Croes here.

I am very scared of the cleaning departement.
They have a big mop.

Croes wasn't afraid to talk to authorities ~


Police Superintendent Jan van der Straaten told the AP Croes was detained based on information from one of the other three detainees.

Croes, who works as a party boat disk jockey, said he was contacted by police Thursday night and went to the station voluntarily to give a statement, said his employer, Marcus Wiggins.

Croes also said he knew one of two Surinamese brothers being detained in the case because they went to the same Internet cafe, Wiggins told The Associated Press. However, Wiggins said that he had not seen the other three young men detained in the case on the boat where Croes works, a vessel called the Tattoo that offers nightly dining, swimming and dancing.

As for Croes' work ethic, Wiggins had nothing bad to say.

"I've never had problems with him," Wiggins told the AP. "He keeps to himself and shows up to work every day and does his job."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159 ... z1ORWSjvWz


I guess you might be right though....Croes sure seemingly had no fear of repercussions for lying to authorities or interfering in a missing person investgation. "Can we pencil you in to voluntarily come down and give a statement? Friday around noonish - that doesn't work for you cuz you got a late gig...okay make it fourish"

[K_Meine]

Last quote does not exists!

If Aruba really wants to get to the bottom of this they should get the following people together (please excuse any misspellings) :
Beth, Joran, Jan, Dompig, Anita, FEB, Bearman, Natalee's hotel roommate, Steve Croes, Rudy Croes, 2K, Matt & Dave Holloway, Jug, Jeffrey Van croimvert(?), Karin Jannsen and the FBI agent on the island at the time.

I'm sure amongst that group some answers could be found. I'd love to be there to ask a few questions myself.

[kitkat]

noevidenceofacrime - just bitter allegations by a complaintant who reportedly knows how to hoist a wine glass pretty well herself.

Whoohoo Aruba!

[K_Meine]

In a Dutch interview Aruban Police Superintendent Jan van der Straten told the reporter that he doesn’t believe that Natalee is still alive.

With regard to Natalee’s status, van der Straaten gave the following statement to a Dutch reporter:

Translation:

Rep: Any hopes for a positive outcome?

Jan: You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.

Rep: Why not?

Jan: Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!

Update: Apparently the translation was first provided by reader repo.

Update2 from a reader:

The correct translation of what Mr. Van der Straten said, i.e., Omdat ik het
onderzoek ken en u niet, is: "Because I am an investigator (a policeman) and you are not."

It is not, as earlier reported, "Because I know the details and you don't."
source:http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/what_does_van_d.html

The above was posted on Friday, July 1, 2005. Albeit translation errors or misunderstanding can exist. IMO, regardless of which statement is more correct what Jan is essentially saying is that there is reasoning and experience behind why he feels the way he does about this case. He doesn't believe Natalee is still alive is a bold statement to make so early in the "investigation" and IMHO begs the question what exactly makes you feel that way? Just a hunch, a feeling or is it more than that? Something more concrete perhaps.

[Black-Tulip]

If Jan wanted to protect Joran do you think he would tell a reporter he had seen evidence of Joran's guilt? That doesn't make sense.

If he knew of evidence Natalee was dead why would he say one has to be hopeful? Doesn't make sense either.

The only thing he said is that he knew the investigation and the reporter didn't. Nothing about details or evidence or being an investigator.

I assume there was little or nothing to prove she could be still alive.

[iquitos]

Omdat ik het
onderzoek ken en u niet

Because I know (am familiar with) the investigation and you are not.

[CherokeeKid]

Knipoog wrote:
reporter:
Rep: Hebt u nog hoop op een goede afloop?
Jan: Hoop moet je altijd hebben, maar ik geloof niet meer dat we Natalee levend zullen terugvinden.
Rep: Waarom niet?
Jan: Omdat ik het onderzoek ken en u niet.

Rep: You still hope for a positive outcome?
Jan: You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.
Rep: Why not?
Jan: Because I know the investigation and you don't !

http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/post-842102.html

[Black-Tulip]

OK, that is settled then.

For a year or so.

Door Dick Hofland/GPD (Geassocieerde Pers Diensten)
ORANJESTAD - Commissaris Jan van der Straten leidt op Aruba het onderzoek naar de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse puber Natalee Holloway. Hoop op een goede afloop voor het verdwenen meisje heeft hij niet meer. Aandachtig luistert hij naar iemand die hem telefonisch tipt over de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse puber Natalee Holloway. ,,O, jaja. Nou, aan helderzienden heb ik niks.''

Hij schudt het hoofd. ,,Ik heb alleen iets aan feiten.’’ Op zijn kantoor in de wijk Noord op Aruba hangt een tijdslijn, waar het verloop van de onderzoek te volgen is; wie was waar op welk moment, wie heeft wie waar, wanneer gezien. Dertien jaar werkt hij nu op Aruba en volgende maand gaat hij met pensioen. Af en toe was er een moord, meestal in de familiesfeer, soms had die te maken met drugs. Verder gebeurt er niet zo veel. ,,Arubanen zijn vriendelijke mensen, die geweld schuwen.’’ De laatste vijf jaar is hij belast met de reorganisatie van de politie op het tropische eiland.

- Een makkie?
,,Ha. Zo zou ik het niet willen noemen. Als je hier bent als Nederlander moet je niet zeggen: zó moet het. Je moet de mensen er altijd bij betrekken."

- Het is een hechte gemeenschap, ook het justitiewereldje. Is dat niet link?
,,Het is een klein eiland, iedereen kent iedereen. Rechters, advocaten, op recepties kom ik ze allemaal tegen.’’

- Dus ook Paul van der S., die een tijdje heeft vastgezeten op verdenking van betrokkenheid bij de verdwijning?
,,Ja, ik ken hem goed. Maar zoals ze hier zeggen: lei pa un, lei pa tur. De wet voor één is de wet voor allen. Als er redenen zijn om iemand te arresteren, dan doe je dat.’’

- Wat doet de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway u?
,,Ik vind het afschuwelijk voor de ouders, het is niet niks als je je kind kwijtraakt. Maar ik blijf zakelijk: dit is een onderzoek.’’

- Men begint ongeduldig te worden.
,,Een goed onderzoek vraagt tijd. Bij haast is niemand gebaat. Als je gaat forceren, is de kans op fouten te groot."

- Hebt u nog hoop op een goede afloop?

,,Hoop moet je altijd hebben, maar ik geloof niet dat we Natalee levend zullen terugvinden.’’

- Waarom niet?
,,Omdat ik het onderzoek ken.’’ ....

[Knipoog]

I think everything is pretty much rechewed.

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[CherokeeKid]

Thanks for the article, BT. That should settle it, as you said.

But some might like to re-chew it. Knipoog gave them the idea.

[resigned]

It still doesn't explain what he meant by that quip.

But it does say that Jan admits to knowing Paulus well - just as Paulus admitted to being a friend of Jan.

But that is often denied or stated that it is taken out of context because WE don't know they meant by what "knows well".

[K_Meine]

If Jan wanted to protect Joran do you think he would tell a reporter he had seen evidence of Joran's guilt? That doesn't make sense.
I don't recall Jan specifically mentioning the protection of Joran or inferring guilt but he did mention he can't let this happen to his friend Paulus.

If he knew of evidence Natalee was dead why would he say one has to be hopeful? Doesn't make sense either.

Maybe he is an optimist and at the time didn't have everything sorted. He could have been bluffing just like Joran. It's all about buying time.

The only thing he said is that he knew the investigation and the reporter didn't. Nothing about details or evidence or being an investigator.

Actually he said he didn't believe they'd find Natalee alive anymore. As an investigator he should have more knowledge in this area than a reporter and given it was only shortly after Natalee went missing it was a bold statement. Had he said it two weeks later it wouldn't have been a big deal.

I assume there was little or nothing to prove she could be still alive.

WADR I wouldn't assume that at all. The son of a judge is in trouble and within days the lead investigator is dropping hints like the above and then the trail goes forever cold? "Something bad happened" indeed.

ps. This case has never and will never make sense. Under the current circumstances the NH case is unsolvable. Her body is very likely unrecoverable which means Joran can't be prosecuted and even if it did show up one wouldn't be able to show COD. The odd thing is for someone who says he wasn't involved in Natalee's disappearance. He felt attached enough to it to use it as reasoning to murder Stephany. OOOOPPSS. Clearly Paulus didn't help on that one.

[Flippy]

Actually he said he didn't believe they'd find Natalee alive anymore. As an investigator he should have more knowledge in this area than a reporter and given it was only shortly after Natalee went missing it was a bold statement. Had he said it two weeks later it wouldn't have been a big deal.

I assume there was little or nothing to prove she could be still alive.

To be a realist, I can kinda "forgive" Jan on this one. Perhaps he spoke too candidly; but the facts at the time time were that you had a young woman who had vanished in a very small foreign land, without money, passport, or any other means that would even hint at a runaway situation; so really after two or three days you would know that it wasn't going to end well.

Yes, there are exceptions, but those exceptions are far between and they make international news for a reason.

[iquitos]

from the beginning. nobody has anything on him. he is by all accounts a first rate cop.