False confession

[Black-Tulip]

.. well, when Joran was exhibiting signs of being a headstrong teenager and became a disruption in the family, I don't think it was thought to get him psychiatric care. It was teenage rebellion and many teenagers go through that and do not need psychiatric treatment. I cannot fault Anita and Paul for thinking that it was anything other than teenage rebellion and that the stage would pass. Were they permissive parents ... probably, but many a teenager with permissive parents becomes a worthwhile and productive citizen. FWIW, I don't see their permissiveness as the cause of any of this.

I also don't think it's not that simple. Too permissive isn't good of course, too strict can even be worse.

Parents have a great influence but there are so many other factors they can't control.
Brothers and sisters with the same upbringing often develop very differently from each other.

[K_Meine]

.. well, when Joran was exhibiting signs of being a headstrong teenager and became a disruption in the family, I don't think it was thought to get him psychiatric care. It was teenage rebellion and many teenagers go through that and do not need psychiatric treatment. I cannot fault Anita and Paul for thinking that it was anything other than teenage rebellion and that the stage would pass. Were they permissive parents ... probably, but many a teenager with permissive parents becomes a worthwhile and productive citizen. FWIW, I don't see their permissiveness as the cause of any of this.

Anita van der Sloot told De Telegraaf that she does not intend to visit her son Joran in Peru. She said Joran is sick, but did not want mental help.

After Joran left for Peru, Anita van der Sloot found a note from her son that said, “I’m gone, do not worry.” The next time she saw him, he was on TV in handcuffs.

Anita van der Sloot spoke to the press about her son Joran. She still maintains his innocence in the disappearance and presumed death of Natalee Holloway, but admits that, “Stephany, he may have killed.” What's that river in Egypt called?

My Fox Phoenix reports, “She said her son displayed signs of paranoia and blamed himself for his father’s unexpected death earlier this year.

He had agreed to be hospitalized but instead left for Peru, leaving only a note saying he was going there to play in a poker tournament, she said.

MSNBC quotes Anita van der Sloot, “If he did this, he must bear the consequences. I can not embrace him,” Anita van der Sloot said. She claims that her son was [sic] in recent years developed severe mental problems. ” His departure to Peru was a flight to escape being committed to a clinic.”

IMO Anita has known for some time that Joran has had greater issues than simply being a headstrong teenager and for whatever reason didn't catch his change in behavior soon enough. From to Anita to Jan there were enough signs present that Joran was mentally unfit but ultimately the decision was left up to him and he clearly was incapable of making consistent rational decisions.

[Black-Tulip]

IMO Anita has known for some time that Joran has had greater issues than simply being a headstrong teenager and for whatever reason didn't catch his change in behavior soon enough. From to Anita to Jan there were enough signs present that Joran was mentally unfit but ultimately the decision was left up to him and he clearly was incapable of making consistent rational decisions.

Too bad you weren't there to take control.

But honestly, do you believe Anita knew he was about to kill someone?

How come the FBI didn't know he was that dangerous?

[iquitos]

enabled his trip to peru ... profiler on vacation?

[iquitos]

IMO Anita has known for some time that Joran has had greater issues than simply being a headstrong teenager and for whatever reason didn't catch his change in behavior soon enough. From to Anita to Jan there were enough signs present that Joran was mentally unfit but ultimately the decision was left up to him and he clearly was incapable of making consistent rational decisions.

exactly when was it she knew? how old was he?

[Black-Tulip]

enabled his trip to peru ... profiler on vacation?

Who knows?

Obviously the case had little priority.

[patricehenri]

KMIME and resigned are correct.

People are indeed predisposed.

Joran to kill, and Natalee and Stephany to die.

Darwin's Law.

Who's to argue with that?

Who?

Why not.

Stephany's daddy in the midst of election having cultivated a non-acceptable darter that dabbled in the "same" sex might very well impede his chances amongst the populous of peru.

or

the bully Jug sick and tired of hearing (as we all are) 'she's the most responsible, the grade AAA+, the best of the best" "every conceivable option extracurricular anything and everything" while squashed in a day room where she like an obedient muppeted folded her day bed every day.

Might she that simple little girl from Mississippi, embarrass "Jug's" life time aspirations.

to become the manager of a metal company's district manger's 'H U G E " responsibilities.

lol

Bottom line: two losers are dead and one winner is a live.

Is earth better off?

[iquitos]

give a false confession under duress and ill advised by a hostile lawyer through an unqualified interpreter? \

[resigned]

give a false confession under duress and ill advised by a hostile lawyer through an unqualified interpreter? \

Nope - his claims were unfounded. You are familiar with that term via your often quoted ruling on Paulus's arrest.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/27 ... JhczYEwvh5

Lima, Peru -- A superior court judge in Lima, Peru, upheld the confession and incarceration of Joran van der Sloot in connection with the killing of Stefany Flores, officials said.

On Friday, Judge Wilder Casique Alvizuri declared as "unfounded" van der Sloot's habeas corpus claim that his constitutional rights were violated at the time of the confession because he was represented by a state-appointed attorney. Van der Sloot also claimed that his laptop had been improperly searched

[iquitos]

appealed that.

[resigned]

appealed that.

Maximo quit.

During the court session it became apparent that the Dutchman does speak Spanish. His former lawyer, Máximo Altez, claimed his client had been forced to sign a document in Spanish under pressure which stated he understood the charges against him.

Now that Van der Sloot has conceded he speaks Spanish the case can no longer be held up when there is no Dutch translator, according to Radio Netherlands journalist Pablo Gámez, who is following the case.

Hup Hup!

[iquitos]

Hup Hup!

wait wait what about this?

... Three judges in the Peruvian capital Lima have failed to reach agreement on suspected killer Joran van der Sloot’s appeal to have his confession to the police dismissed.

The authorities in Lima have announced that a fourth judge is now to consider Van der Sloot’s request. His initial motion was rejected, but he filed an appeal. Two judges granted his request but the third rejected it. Under Peruvian law, three judges have to unanimously rule in favour or against an appeal, which is why a fourth judge is now to consider it.

Joran van der Sloot argues that the lawyer who was present during his interrogation was not appointed according to regulations and that the interpreter was not authorised. Van der Sloot is suspected of killing Peruvian Stephany Flores in his Lima hotel room on 30 May. He confessed to the crime during police interrogations. ...

is saying you speak spanish when you don't have a lawyer the same as actually speaking it for legal purposes?

[resigned]

Last quote does not exists!

Why be deceitful? You know that no Judge in Peru has voted in support of Joran's motion - you even claimed to write to a Peruvian friend that supposedly translated the meaning of the ruling - None have upheld the motion, they have only differred on whether it is unlawful or groundless....

more from peruvian lawyer friend:

Mr. xxx:

I hope this comments will help to clarify the legal process/court decision:

1. The three judges do not support Van der Sloot's habeas corpus motion. One judge issued a different verdict.

2. Judges Meza and Zapata, both agreed agree that the Habeas Corpus motion claimed by Van der Slot was: "improcedente": not actionable, unlawful.

3. Judge Malzon Urbina's single verdict was to declare Van der Slot's Habeas Corpus motion: "infundado" : unjustified and/or groundless.

4. In order to have a valid final verdict, it is necessary to have a fourth opinion: verdict; so the 4th. Judge will issued an additional verdict: he could
decide: "improcedente", so there will be 3 votes: improcedente, final court verdict: "improcedente".
On legal Constitutional process it is necessary to have 3 votes, in order to issue a final verdict.


Regards,

xxx

[iquitos]

opined yet on unfounded vs improcedente? I have not seen that.

[iquitos]

... And he said he will continue to represent van der Sloot in a related habeas corpus case claiming human rights violations during his arrest --a case that would be thrown out if Altez withdrew from that case too. ...


http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/05/31/per.van.der.sloot/

31 May.

[resigned]

..and I'm still waiting for the first or any judge to rule that Joran's claim has any merit.

Guess we will wait and see what comes first.

[iquitos]

..and I'm still waiting for the first or any judge to rule that Joran's claim has any merit.

Guess we will wait and see what comes first.

I'm waiting until the final judgment. Maximo says it is not yet rendered and appears to be committed to seeing it through. He must think he has a case.

[resigned]

I'm waiting until the final judgment. Maximo says it is not yet rendered and appears to be committed to seeing it through. He must think he has a case.

Maximo hasn't mentioned it since Joran went to court on June 14th. Si? Maybe he's busy suing that Dutch magazine or is in pursuit of all the other claims he made - like the woman Max hired to deliver care packages to Joran who claims she never met him......

[K_Meine]

exactly when was it she knew? how old was he?

The mother of accused killer Joran van der Sloot said that even as a boy her son was a sneaky liar...

She (Anita) has also said her son was mentally ill, and that he could possibly have harmed Stephany Flores

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/mom-joran-van ... d=10997756

I can't answer that but according to what she has stated it could be a while back. I'd be happy to speculate more if you like...

[K_Meine]

enabled his trip to peru ... profiler on vacation?

Had Beth purchased Joran's airplane ticket to Peru you might have a leg to stand on but how he spent the money after receiving it and his actions after that point were entirely his responsibility. Beth's money did not force Joran to kill Stephany. Joran is entirely and solely responsible for that action.

[Flippy]

Had Beth purchased Joran's airplane ticket to Peru you might have a leg to stand on but how he spent the money after receiving it and his actions after that point were entirely his responsibility. Beth's money did not force Joran to kill Stephany. Joran is entirely and solely responsible for that action.

If I give a panhandler $20 to buy food for his starving children (what the sign said) and he uses it to get drunk (which is more likely), I might feel a little guilty for enabling him but I am not responsible.

Joran was a survivor, able to come up with money whenever he really needed it. To blame Beth for the money is a fun game to a point, but she was not the first of Joran's enablers and probably not even the last.

Unless you can actually connect the dots to make this some sort of elaborate FBI sting where he is lured to Peru, the guilt isn't there.

[iquitos]

"know" is a gang rapist and killer and you give him money when you know he has scammed many others including your dear friend greta and he uses the money to escape from the fbi and goes off and kills somebody then you have a hand in the matter whatever you want to call it. maybe not guilt but at least facilitation.

[resigned]

"know" is a gang rapist and killer and you give him money when you know he has scammed many others including your dear friend greta and he uses the money to escape from the fbi and goes off and kills somebody then you have a hand in the matter whatever you want to call it. maybe not guilt but at least facilitation.

No you don't. The person who commits the crime is responsible - do you want to blame Anita for getting knocked up when she wasn't married too?

You're comparisons are bullshit. Joran is responsible for any and all crimes he has committed - no one else.

[iquitos]

in a sting then at least you ought to stop him before he goes off and becomes a suspect in a murder case.

[resigned]

in a sting then at least you ought to stop him before he goes off and becomes a suspect in a murder case.

Joraning 101

Somebody tell Joran that if you extort from one victim's family that he shouldn't go and kill someone else. I know he isn't used to living by such harsh rules ...but, tough shit.