Show and Tell

[K_Meine]

Save the good people of Aruba from what?

According to Petals themselves.
IMO it's safe to say that people would feel more comfortable about the Natalee Holloway situation if some answers were found and if this was not of her own doing. That those responsible for her disappearance were brought to justice. There were a number of odd situations that transpired at the beginning that couldn't help but make people wonder. Maybe it was the fault of the media for misreporting information. Regardless something still stinks about this situation and this has not been helpful to Aruba.

[K Hemingway]

According to Petals themselves.
IMO it's safe to say that people would feel more comfortable about the Natalee Holloway situation if some answers were found and if this was not of her own doing. That those responsible for her disappearance were brought to justice. There were a number of odd situations that transpired at the beginning that couldn't help but make people wonder. Maybe it was the fault of the media for misreporting information. Regardless something still stinks about this situation and this has not been helpful to Aruba.

LOL...So you meant Joran when you said 'only one people can save the good people of Aruba?' You meant until Joran is brought to justice the poor people of Aruba 'can't be saved?'

IMO, they don't obsesses about justice in this case because they know there's no evidence of a crime...let alone obsessing about Joran.

The only thing that would make them happier would be if the media whores and opportunists stop milking the ever morphing story. But even that is mostly ignored by now.

They've learned a lot since 2005.

[K_Meine]

LOL...So you meant Joran when you said 'only one people can save the good people of Aruba?' You meant until Joran is brought to justice the poor people of Aruba 'can't be saved?'

IMO, they don't obsesses about justice in this case because they know there's no evidence of a crime...let alone obsessing about Joran.

The only thing that would make them happier would be if the media whores and opportunists stop milking the ever morphing story. But even that is mostly ignored by now.

They've learned a lot since 2005.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but I'm not convinced you can understand the feelings of the Aruban people if you are not an inhabitant of that island. Or are you? I don't know.

Also, please do explain how the existence of evidence relates to the desire to seek justice. I am uncertain on their "obsessive" feelings towards Joran at this point but the following statement does speak volumes:

Justice Minister Rudy Croes has stated that Joran Van der Sloot is considered persona non grata and other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island

For the record it wasn't I who thought the Aruban people needed to be saved. They are essentially powerless in this whole situation and IMO have been unfairly affected. Like it or not, Joran is the one who put Aruba under the media microscope and he's the only one who can take it away. Rudy Croes didn't say what he said because Joran is a swell guy. Innocent or not, evidence or not. Every BS lie Joran has told and continues to tell gets related back to Aruba and likely in a not so positive way. Why do you think they don't want him back?

[K Hemingway]

For the record it wasn't I who thought the Aruban people needed to be saved. They are essentially powerless in this whole situation and IMO have been unfairly affected. Like it or not, Joran is the one who put Aruba under the media microscope and he's the only one who can take it away. Rudy Croes didn't say what he said because Joran is a swell guy. Innocent or not, evidence or not. Every BS lie Joran has told and continues to tell gets related back to Aruba and likely in a not so positive way. Why do you think they don't want him back?

Like I said...I think very few people in Aruba OBSESS about the NH case.

In 2005 they were essentially powerless in this whole situation due to the negative massive media blitz by Beth, and they WERE unfairly affected...but that's over.

[WordsofWisdom]

...but that's over.

Thank God and pass the bisquits!

[K_Meine]

Like I said...I think very few people in Aruba OBSESS about the NH case.

In 2005 they were essentially powerless in this whole situation due to the negative massive media blitz by Beth, and they WERE unfairly affected...but that's over.

AFAIC if there is one person who chooses another destination over Aruba because of the Holloway situation. Then they are being affected. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Natalee's disappearance is still a consideration in people's travel plans. I'd go to Aruba again but I sure wouldn't let my daughter go by herself.

[yankee-in-france]

From everything that I have read, Aruba is a safe destination. Think of it this way, it is an island of what -- 100,000 people. If there is this perpetrator (not Joran) out there, who took Natalee while she was laying sleeping on the beach after Joran left her, wouldn't you think that the local citizens would be very concerned about. They themselves would be demanding action. I think that the Aruban people are pretty smart and know there is no reason to be afraid and have pretty much figured out what happened. IMO.

[yankee-in-france]

From everything that I have read, Aruba is a safe destination. Think of it this way, it is an island of what -- 100,000 people. If there is this perpetrator (not Joran) out there, who took Natalee while she was laying sleeping on the beach after Joran left her, wouldn't you think that the local citizens would be very concerned about. They themselves would be demanding action. I think that the Aruban people are pretty smart and know there is no reason to obsess about the case or be afraid and have pretty much figured out what happened in their own minds. IMO.

[Black-Tulip]

AFAIC if there is one person who chooses another destination over Aruba because of the Holloway situation. Then they are being affected. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Natalee's disappearance is still a consideration in people's travel plans. I'd go to Aruba again but I sure wouldn't let my daughter go by herself.

But you let her go to Mexico for instance?

[iquitos]

From everything that I have read, Aruba is a safe destination. Think of it this way, it is an island of what -- 100,000 people. If there is this perpetrator (not Joran) out there, who took Natalee while she was laying sleeping on the beach after Joran left her, wouldn't you think that the local citizens would be very concerned about. They themselves would be demanding action. I think that the Aruban people are pretty smart and know there is no reason to obsess about the case or be afraid and have pretty much figured out what happened in their own minds. IMO.

i agree. natalee's disappearance was a fluke. her leaving with the guys was not even that risky in its own context and that of aruba. her friends knew who she left with. they seemed cool with it. the family tried to tar aruba with the dangerous brush to pressure them into finding natalee. you can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

[ghost]

i agree. natalee's disappearance was a fluke. her leaving with the guys was not even that risky in its own context and that of aruba. her friends knew who she left with. they seemed cool with it. the family tried to tar aruba with the dangerous brush to pressure them into finding natalee. you can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

Getting in a car with strangers is dangerous no matter where you are. (Her friends didn't know at the time). But I've noticed in response people have acted as though Aruba is Disneyland. It's not. It's statistically safer than just about any other destination in the area, and it's stupid to act like it's not. But having grown up in a place with a very similar attitude of "it doesn't happen here, we're safe"...I think the Arubans and people from towns like Mountain Brook have a false sense of security in common. It's important to not be an idiot no matter what the setting.

[yankee-in-france]

i agree. natalee's disappearance was a fluke. her leaving with the guys was not even that risky in its own context and that of aruba. her friends knew who she left with. they seemed cool with it. the family tried to tar aruba with the dangerous brush to pressure them into finding natalee. you can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

-- but if it wasn't Joran, and there is another perpetrator, that would be cause for concern. Wouldn't you agree? Yet the Aruban people do not seem to be concerned about that. I wonder why.

[Gregor]

-- but if it wasn't Joran, and there is another perpetrator, that would be cause for concern. Wouldn't you agree? Yet the Aruban people do not seem to be concerned about that. I wonder why.

Putting aside the media hype, why would 100,000 people be concerned about one tourist who disappeared without a trace of a crime having been committed?

[iquitos]

they have been hit hard in the stomach by all this. they probably don't have the same false sense of security that ghost refers to anymore if they ever did. there is crime in aruba but not crime (documented at least) against visitors. and aruba does not have the ambient extreme poverty from which desperate acts of desperate people arise.

[Black-Tulip]

-- but if it wasn't Joran, and there is another perpetrator, that would be cause for concern. Wouldn't you agree? Yet the Aruban people do not seem to be concerned about that. I wonder why.

Are you concerned for 4 years because of 1 unsolved crime (if it is a crime)? Or doesn't that happen in France?

[ghost]

they have been hit hard in the stomach by all this. they probably don't have the same false sense of security that ghost refers to anymore if they ever did. there is crime in aruba but not crime (documented at least) against visitors. and aruba does not have the ambient extreme poverty from which desperate acts of desperate people arise.

Ok let me rephrase, then: that "It can't happen here" attitude is what has been used on message boards to describe the island.

Are you Aruban?

[iquitos]

Ok let me rephrase, then: that "It can't happen here" attitude is what has been used on message boards to describe the island.

Are you Aruban?

no i am not. i agree with your idea that people fall into an "it can't happen here" sense of security. i think arubans had that vis a vis tourists if not in their own personal lives where there is petty crime, burglary etc. then there is the whole drug underworld there that is not benign at all. so there are different little worlds with different concepts of security. it is like what makes people in the suburbs of DC afraid to go downtown because they read about crime that happens in the poorer parts of the district. the threat level is different for different socio economic groups.

i think the arubans believed they were a hospitable people who knew the value of treating tourists well. they discovered another side and still have not been able to pin it on anyone though i imagine most blame joran. that is how he has been expertly painted. and he has given them some ammunition himself. he single handedly ruined their self image with a little help from miss reynolds and the tabloid cable networks.

[Linda in L.A.]

Putting aside the media hype, why would 100,000 people be concerned about one tourist who disappeared without a trace of a crime having been committed?

I don't think they would be...its human nature to have things like this fade away after a few weeks. Maybe Beth realized that? Maybe that's why she made a decision not to allow it to fade.

[Glenda]

Getting in a car with strangers is dangerous no matter where you are. (Her friends didn't know at the time). But I've noticed in response people have acted as though Aruba is Disneyland. It's not. It's statistically safer than just about any other destination in the area, and it's stupid to act like it's not. But having grown up in a place with a very similar attitude of "it doesn't happen here, we're safe"...I think the Arubans and people from towns like Mountain Brook have a false sense of security in common. It's important to not be an idiot no matter what the setting.

I don't have a false sense of security, I know that I'm safe. I've never gotten into a car with 3 strangers in the middle of the night. I know that I'm in Aruba and not in Birmingham so I'm a lot safer than you. Oddly enough, I've never been kidnapped, drugged, gangraped, murdered or disposed of. Though I have been left on the beach by a Dutch guy.

[K_Meine]

no i am not. i agree with your idea that people fall into an "it can't happen here" sense of security. i think arubans had that vis a vis tourists if not in their own personal lives where there is petty crime, burglary etc. then there is the whole drug underworld there that is not benign at all. so there are different little worlds with different concepts of security. it is like what makes people in the suburbs of DC afraid to go downtown because they read about crime that happens in the poorer parts of the district. the threat level is different for different socio economic groups.

i think the arubans believed they were a hospitable people who knew the value of treating tourists well. they discovered another side and still have not been able to pin it on anyone though i imagine most blame joran. that is how he has been expertly painted. and he has given them some ammunition himself. he single handedly ruined their self image with a little help from miss reynolds and the tabloid cable networks.

Not to mention his road show with Patrick and that one he did all by himself.

Imagine if Joran simply said something along the lines of "yeah we were together for a while on the beach and then she left and went back to the hotel and I walked home" instead of changing his stories so many times. He'd have been off the hook if he had had a more believable story. Offering multiple versions is what aroused suspicion and still does.

[ghost]

I don't have a false sense of security, I know that I'm safe. I've never gotten into a car with 3 strangers in the middle of the night. I know that I'm in Aruba and not in Birmingham so I'm a lot safer than you. Oddly enough, I've never been kidnapped, drugged, gangraped, murdered or disposed of. Though I have been left on the beach by a Dutch guy.

Let's put it this way. In Aruba how many murders have there been in the past five years? A handful. In Mountain Brook, none. I think statistically I am probably safer from violent crime in Mountain Brook than in Aruba. I'd venture a guess that petty theft (leaving a car door unlocked or a purse unattended) is fairly similar for the same reasons: people feel safe so they become careless with locking their valuables up. Personally I don't go into Birmingham often and one reason is because it does require more vigilance than hanging out in one of the villages at home. But it's stupid to think nothing can happen even in a safe area. I've never had any kind of crime committed against me, violent or otherwise, even downtown, even in large cities and even in other countries. Knock on wood.

Everything I heard about Aruba before and after the trip has been "one happy island"...a little too "it can't happen here". It can and does, and many times a false sense of security is probably part of the reason. Whether residents truly have that sense or not, that's what they advertise...Disneyland and better. Too me it seemed like "doth protest too much". Trying too hard. Like I said, statistically I believe I'm about equally safe in Mountain Brook and Aruba. That doesn't mean I should let my guard down in either place.

[yankee-in-france]

Are you concerned for 4 years because of 1 unsolved crime (if it is a crime)? Or doesn't that happen in France?

Our area is relatively crime free except for pickpockets in season, but if a young person went missing after being in the company of a local who remained the prime suspect for four years and there was a possibility that another person harmed her rather than the one they had been looking at for all this time, yes, I think that the locals would be a bit worried and would be chagrined that their law enforcement botched the investigation. Locals however have a way of innately knowing certain things, and perhaps what they know may not give them cause for additional concern.

[petals]

But I've noticed in response people have acted as though Aruba is Disneyland. It's not.

That's for sure. From everything I can tell, Aruba is far safer than Disneyland (or Disneyworld).

[iquitos]

Not to mention his road show with Patrick and that one he did all by himself.

Imagine if Joran simply said something along the lines of "yeah we were together for a while on the beach and then she left and went back to the hotel and I walked home" instead of changing his stories so many times. He'd have been off the hook if he had had a more believable story. Offering multiple versions is what aroused suspicion and still does.

did you forget peterick was secretly filming him? it may have been a roadshow but it was not for public consumption. and yes, joran was a fool to get in bed with reGreta and say what he did, even for money.

[yankee-in-france]

Putting aside the media hype, why would 100,000 people be concerned about one tourist who disappeared without a trace of a crime having been committed?

-- because if one tourist can disappear with no resolution, another can disappear.

I don't mean to mix cases but Stacy Peterson disappeared how long ago. There is no evidence of a crime. Do you believe that Stacy Peterson is alive and well? Just because there is no crime scene and just because the body was disappeared well, does not mean that a crime did not occur. I doubt that a majority of the 100,000 people on Aruba believe that Natalee is alive and well. If Joran isn't the perp, then someone else amongst them is. I think that might give someone cause for concern unless of course they feel differently and believe that Joran is the prime suspect for a reason even though nothing more can be proved.