I have no idea. But if you see the print on the mat it isn't that big. And since Kermit atleast uses the measurements of the tiles to compare the footprint, where FOA just resized Rudy's footprint to fit the bathmat print...
He explains exactly how he comes to the size with his powerpoint presentation, so on that account I rather believe what I see with my own eyes than just a pic which is posted without any explanation, to be honest...I just disagree with him that it is Raffaele's footprint..
Plus Amanda's blood is found on the faucet above that footprint, thus isn't it a stretch for me to think the possibility it's hers, is bigger than it's Raffaele's...
General Discussion
Moderators: yankee-in-france, Fashionista
by CherokeeKid » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:39 pm
To me, those footprints look very similar. But what I like is that two experts for prints were used in this trial. One is Lorenzo Rinaldi, director of the print-identity division of Italy’s forensic police.
The defense teams have also hired their own experts to testify in court.
Excerpts from True Justice forum:
From the prosecution testimony
Over the opposition of both defense teams, Lorenzo Rinaldi demonstrated to jurors using a precise Power Point presentation why the visible bloody footprint left on the cotton bath mat in the bathroom is attributable to Sollecito, who is on trial along with Knox for murder of her British roommate, Meredith Kercher, in November 2007....
“All the elements are compatible with Mr. Sollecito’s foot,” Rinaldi said, pointing with a red laser to a millimeter-by-millimeter analysis of Sollecito’s footprint projected onto a big-screen in the courtroom. He used similar methods to exclude that the footprint on the bath mat could possibly be Guede’s or Knox’s…
The next witness, another print expert, again confirmed Rinaldi’s testimony, that the print, which only shows the top half of the foot, matches the precise characteristics of Sollecito’s foot.
Two luminol-enhanced bare footprints were also found compatible with Knox’s right foot, Rinaldi said, one exiting her own room and another in the corridor outside Kercher’s door, facing toward the room.
All the bloody shoeprints in the room where Kercher was found were compatible with the size 11 Nike Outbreak 2 shoes believed to be Guede’s, Rinaldi said, except for one smaller, unattributed shoeprint found on the pillow that was under Kercher’s body.
Presiding Judge Giancarlo Massei asked Rinaldi what size that shoe print was, he responded “37 or 38.” He then asked what size Knox wears, and Rinaldi said according to other shoes sequestered from the crime scene, she wears a 37.
A second print expert later testified that he believed the shoeprint to be that of a woman’s size 37.5 Asics tennis shoe. No Asics tennis shoes were among the 22 pairs sequestered by police from the three’s apartments.
Rinaldi’s detailed PPT described methods of image analysis, metric and grid measurement of the ball, toe, heel and arch, as well the particular characteristics of the footprints, shoeprints as well as the actual shoes and feet of Knox, Sollecito and Guede. The three suspects gave their footprints and fingerprints at police headquarters.
2) And from the cross-examination
On cross examination, one of Knox’s defense team, Rome lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, questioned the certainty with which the prints could be considered compatible with Knox’s foot. He noted that a match with Sollecito and Guede’s footprints was excluded, but asked why the luminol print was not compared with the other two female roommates in the house.
Under cross, Rinaldi also confirmed that luminol, a substance used by forensic police to reveal non-visible traces of blood, also could react to other substances that contain iron, such as fruit juices, chlorophyll or rust, as well as bleach.
When asked what substance the print was made in, Rinaldi said he does only image analysis and such a determination would have to be made by a forensic biologist. That witness is scheduled to testify at the next hearing. Defense teams have all hired their own forensic experts to testify during their presentations.
And:
Saturday Morning At Trial: Bloody Footprints Said To Match The Defendants
Bloodstained footprints found at the house where British student Meredith Kercher was stabbed to death fit her alleged killers, a court has heard.
Forensic scientists found one imprint on a bath mat and three more in the corridor leading from Meredith’s bedroom to that of suspect Amanda Knox.
The court heard how imprints were taken of Knox, 21, and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 25....
Police scientist Dr Lorenzo Rinaldi told the Italian court his forensic evidence was discovered by using Luminol - a substance that turns blue in the presence of blood.
“From our investigations we were able to conclude that the footprint found on the bath mat was compatible with that of Sollecito as was one found in the corridor using Luminol,” Dr Rinaldi said.
“We also found that a naked footprint found in Knox’s bedroom and in the corridor outside, again using Luminol, was compatible with the one taken from her in prison.”
Dr Rinaldi explained to the court how microscopic point to point measurements such as ‘’heel to toe’’ or ‘’toe and arch width’’ were used to identify the imprints.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C339/
The defense teams have also hired their own experts to testify in court.
Excerpts from True Justice forum:
From the prosecution testimony
Over the opposition of both defense teams, Lorenzo Rinaldi demonstrated to jurors using a precise Power Point presentation why the visible bloody footprint left on the cotton bath mat in the bathroom is attributable to Sollecito, who is on trial along with Knox for murder of her British roommate, Meredith Kercher, in November 2007....
“All the elements are compatible with Mr. Sollecito’s foot,” Rinaldi said, pointing with a red laser to a millimeter-by-millimeter analysis of Sollecito’s footprint projected onto a big-screen in the courtroom. He used similar methods to exclude that the footprint on the bath mat could possibly be Guede’s or Knox’s…
The next witness, another print expert, again confirmed Rinaldi’s testimony, that the print, which only shows the top half of the foot, matches the precise characteristics of Sollecito’s foot.
Two luminol-enhanced bare footprints were also found compatible with Knox’s right foot, Rinaldi said, one exiting her own room and another in the corridor outside Kercher’s door, facing toward the room.
All the bloody shoeprints in the room where Kercher was found were compatible with the size 11 Nike Outbreak 2 shoes believed to be Guede’s, Rinaldi said, except for one smaller, unattributed shoeprint found on the pillow that was under Kercher’s body.
Presiding Judge Giancarlo Massei asked Rinaldi what size that shoe print was, he responded “37 or 38.” He then asked what size Knox wears, and Rinaldi said according to other shoes sequestered from the crime scene, she wears a 37.
A second print expert later testified that he believed the shoeprint to be that of a woman’s size 37.5 Asics tennis shoe. No Asics tennis shoes were among the 22 pairs sequestered by police from the three’s apartments.
Rinaldi’s detailed PPT described methods of image analysis, metric and grid measurement of the ball, toe, heel and arch, as well the particular characteristics of the footprints, shoeprints as well as the actual shoes and feet of Knox, Sollecito and Guede. The three suspects gave their footprints and fingerprints at police headquarters.
2) And from the cross-examination
On cross examination, one of Knox’s defense team, Rome lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova, questioned the certainty with which the prints could be considered compatible with Knox’s foot. He noted that a match with Sollecito and Guede’s footprints was excluded, but asked why the luminol print was not compared with the other two female roommates in the house.
Under cross, Rinaldi also confirmed that luminol, a substance used by forensic police to reveal non-visible traces of blood, also could react to other substances that contain iron, such as fruit juices, chlorophyll or rust, as well as bleach.
When asked what substance the print was made in, Rinaldi said he does only image analysis and such a determination would have to be made by a forensic biologist. That witness is scheduled to testify at the next hearing. Defense teams have all hired their own forensic experts to testify during their presentations.
And:
Saturday Morning At Trial: Bloody Footprints Said To Match The Defendants
Bloodstained footprints found at the house where British student Meredith Kercher was stabbed to death fit her alleged killers, a court has heard.
Forensic scientists found one imprint on a bath mat and three more in the corridor leading from Meredith’s bedroom to that of suspect Amanda Knox.
The court heard how imprints were taken of Knox, 21, and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 25....
Police scientist Dr Lorenzo Rinaldi told the Italian court his forensic evidence was discovered by using Luminol - a substance that turns blue in the presence of blood.
“From our investigations we were able to conclude that the footprint found on the bath mat was compatible with that of Sollecito as was one found in the corridor using Luminol,” Dr Rinaldi said.
“We also found that a naked footprint found in Knox’s bedroom and in the corridor outside, again using Luminol, was compatible with the one taken from her in prison.”
Dr Rinaldi explained to the court how microscopic point to point measurements such as ‘’heel to toe’’ or ‘’toe and arch width’’ were used to identify the imprints.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C339/
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:45 pm
Thanks CK.
You know what I do find weird and noticed just today really? All those footprints are from a right foot, the barefoot prints I mean...Isn't that kind of weird?
You know what I do find weird and noticed just today really? All those footprints are from a right foot, the barefoot prints I mean...Isn't that kind of weird?
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by CherokeeKid » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:04 pm
Hannie wrote:Thanks CK.
You know what I do find weird and noticed just today really? All those footprints are from a right foot, the barefoot prints I mean...Isn't that kind of weird?
Your are welcome, Hannie.
Yes, that is weird.
But I also find it weird that all three were walking around barefoot. Possibly stepping in the blood. And there are bloody shoe prints as well.
I wonder if the suspects kept their shoes they were wearing that night? Or threw them away? Like the Asics tennis shoe?
A second print expert later testified that he believed the shoeprint to be that of a woman’s size 37.5 Asics tennis shoe. No Asics tennis shoes were among the 22 pairs sequestered by police from the three’s apartments.
And what's about the clothes they were wearing that night? Could it actually be determined what clothes they were wearing, including shoes, to hand them over to police?
You also raise some interesting questions regarding luminol. I read that experts from Rome came to help in the investigation. They are equivalent to FBI or Scottland Yard. I don't know how it all works but it seems a well established method. I'll continue to look if I can find some good explanation about the cleaned-up footprints.
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:16 pm
I didn't read anything about bloody barefooted prints found of Rudy? I thought only his shoeprints were found in Meredith's room and parts of it in the hallway?
The barefooted thing may be due to the fact they put out all their clothes because of the cleaning, or their shoes were so full with blood they took them off and threw them away..
Rudy admitted that he threw his shoes away while he was in Germany if I'm not mistaken. Amanda could have done the same with her shoes, I also believe that the Asics brand wasn't a fact, or couldn't really be determined, only the approximate size that was between 36/38 a women's size and Amanda's size is 37...
Filomena has said that Amanda was wearing some kind of sweater which somehow mysteriously disappeared...so..
The barefooted thing may be due to the fact they put out all their clothes because of the cleaning, or their shoes were so full with blood they took them off and threw them away..
Rudy admitted that he threw his shoes away while he was in Germany if I'm not mistaken. Amanda could have done the same with her shoes, I also believe that the Asics brand wasn't a fact, or couldn't really be determined, only the approximate size that was between 36/38 a women's size and Amanda's size is 37...
Filomena has said that Amanda was wearing some kind of sweater which somehow mysteriously disappeared...so..
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:20 pm
And if you think about it, Amanda had access right away to a clean pair of shoes at the cottage, but what about Raffaele?
I don't know, there are still parts that don't fit for me...
I don't know, there are still parts that don't fit for me...
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:26 pm
The footprints aren't that clean as I thought they were CK. Before I only saw this picture;
And thought, that doesn't look cleaned they are perfect prints, therefore I thought it could have been normal prints from soapwater after the shower or something, although the amount of glow is big...
But after I did see these ones;
That sure looks, just like they say, bloody footprints which were cleaned..and the 2nd pic actually looks like the foot is soaked in blood..
And thought, that doesn't look cleaned they are perfect prints, therefore I thought it could have been normal prints from soapwater after the shower or something, although the amount of glow is big...
But after I did see these ones;
That sure looks, just like they say, bloody footprints which were cleaned..and the 2nd pic actually looks like the foot is soaked in blood..
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by CherokeeKid » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:09 pm
Thanks for the info, Hannie.
Right now, those footprints look like some abstract art to me!
I think I need more coffee.
I had read "The Machine's" post and I had just recently seen a list of evidence of all three suspects but dang, I did not post it right away and now I cannot remember where I read it! But I cannot remember if the bloody footprints were from all three or only from Amanda and Raffaele.
The Machine
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:20 pm
In case you didn't notice, there was no trail of bloody footprints leading from Meredith's room to the bare bloody footprint on the blue bathmat in the bathroom. The trail of bloody footprints had been cleaned away and the presence of two sets of different sized bare bloody footprints was only revealed by luminol. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand there had been a clean up. Incidentally, the bloody footprints at the cottage matched the foot sizes of Knox, Sollecito and Guede.
Rudy Guede lawyers revealed at his fast track trial that some of Meredith's blood in her room had been mixed with water. The woman's bloody shoeprint, which was compatible with Knox's footsize, was only found on the pillow in Meredith's room. The rest of the bloody shoeprints had been cleaned away.
Knox's lamp was found on the floor in Meredith's room. It's safe to assume that her lamp was used in the clean up to make sure that any incriminating evidence was removed.
The fact that there wasn't a single one of Knox's fingerprints in her own room shows that Knox's room had been cleaned extensively and thoroughly. Knox annoyed her housemates because she didn't pull her weight when it came to cleaning the cottage. It seems strange that she should have cleaned her room so thoroughly. I wonder what motivated her to remove almost all traces of herself from her own room.
After the trail of bloody footprints leading from Meredith's room to the blue bathmat in the bathroom, the woman's bloody shoeprints in Meredith's room and the two sets of different sized bare bloody footprints had been cleaned away, it's most unfortunate for Knox and Sollecito that they were found outside the cottage with a bucket and mop.
Last edited by The Machine on Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org ... html#p5846
Right now, those footprints look like some abstract art to me!
I think I need more coffee.
I had read "The Machine's" post and I had just recently seen a list of evidence of all three suspects but dang, I did not post it right away and now I cannot remember where I read it! But I cannot remember if the bloody footprints were from all three or only from Amanda and Raffaele.
The Machine
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:20 pm
Lancelotti wrote:
If they locked the door immediately then I guess there was no clean-up later? Or was the door locked twice?
But I haven't heard any evidence about this clean-up operation in the cottage anyway, so your version sounds quite plausible to me.
In case you didn't notice, there was no trail of bloody footprints leading from Meredith's room to the bare bloody footprint on the blue bathmat in the bathroom. The trail of bloody footprints had been cleaned away and the presence of two sets of different sized bare bloody footprints was only revealed by luminol. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand there had been a clean up. Incidentally, the bloody footprints at the cottage matched the foot sizes of Knox, Sollecito and Guede.
Rudy Guede lawyers revealed at his fast track trial that some of Meredith's blood in her room had been mixed with water. The woman's bloody shoeprint, which was compatible with Knox's footsize, was only found on the pillow in Meredith's room. The rest of the bloody shoeprints had been cleaned away.
Knox's lamp was found on the floor in Meredith's room. It's safe to assume that her lamp was used in the clean up to make sure that any incriminating evidence was removed.
The fact that there wasn't a single one of Knox's fingerprints in her own room shows that Knox's room had been cleaned extensively and thoroughly. Knox annoyed her housemates because she didn't pull her weight when it came to cleaning the cottage. It seems strange that she should have cleaned her room so thoroughly. I wonder what motivated her to remove almost all traces of herself from her own room.
After the trail of bloody footprints leading from Meredith's room to the blue bathmat in the bathroom, the woman's bloody shoeprints in Meredith's room and the two sets of different sized bare bloody footprints had been cleaned away, it's most unfortunate for Knox and Sollecito that they were found outside the cottage with a bucket and mop.
Last edited by The Machine on Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org ... html#p5846
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by CherokeeKid » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:14 pm
It seems DNA can still be determined after a clean-up and after luminol was applied to find a bloody footprint:
Bloody footprints made visible with luminol in Filomena’s room contain Meredith’s DNA. This indicated to Judge Micheli that the scene in Filomena’s room was also staged after Meredith was killed.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/P160/
Bloody footprints made visible with luminol in Filomena’s room contain Meredith’s DNA. This indicated to Judge Micheli that the scene in Filomena’s room was also staged after Meredith was killed.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/P160/
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:22 pm
That lamp of Amanda in Meredith's room is also weird, and I agree with that it was used for the clean up...
When Amanda checked her room after the so called break in, she didn't see anything missing, which is weird because her lamp stood normally on her sidetable...so that's also not believable to me...You would miss that if you check your room for something missing..
This is the spot where Amanda's lamp normally stood, wouldn't you miss that if you check your room? I would...
Plus, when the postal police arrived the washing machine was on, since Meredith was already dead for atleast 12 hours, she couldn't have put the washing machine on, so that leaves Amanda, weird if you are so scared after you supposedly see suspicious things in the house, like uhh blood and stuff...
When Amanda checked her room after the so called break in, she didn't see anything missing, which is weird because her lamp stood normally on her sidetable...so that's also not believable to me...You would miss that if you check your room for something missing..
This is the spot where Amanda's lamp normally stood, wouldn't you miss that if you check your room? I would...
Plus, when the postal police arrived the washing machine was on, since Meredith was already dead for atleast 12 hours, she couldn't have put the washing machine on, so that leaves Amanda, weird if you are so scared after you supposedly see suspicious things in the house, like uhh blood and stuff...
Last edited by Hannie on Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:24 pm
CherokeeKid wrote:It seems DNA can still be determined after a clean-up and after luminol was applied to find a bloody footprint:
Bloody footprints made visible with luminol in Filomena’s room contain Meredith’s DNA. This indicated to Judge Micheli that the scene in Filomena’s room was also staged after Meredith was killed.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/P160/
Ah thanks! I thought there wasn't any DNA found in those prints at all! Hmmm...
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:29 pm
You would think that there must have been more blood outside Meredith's room, for them to leave so many bloody footprints...because as far as I know, no barefooted prints were found in Meredith's room. And I also didn't read if there's evidence of cleaned up prints there either..
So where was the blood under Amanda's/Raffaele feet coming from?
So where was the blood under Amanda's/Raffaele feet coming from?
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by CherokeeKid » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:31 pm
Hannie wrote:snip...
Plus, when the postal police arrived the washing machine was on, since Meredith was already dead for atleast 12 hours, she couldn't have put the washing machine on, so that leaves Amanda, weird if you are so scared after you supposedly see suspicious things in the house, like uhh blood and stuff...
Hannie, I was just ready to post about the washing machine! You read my mind, AGAIN!
Yes, the washing machine was running, I think Filomena noticed as well. And it turnout out that Meredith's clothes were in the washing machine!!! After she was murdered!
I hope the investigators took those clothes and have their forensic experts test them! There can STILL be semen, blood for DNA testing be found even after they have been washed. IMO, there must be a reason why those clothes were washed by someone after Meredith has died.
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:38 pm
I was fixating on your avatar and got a vision about the washing machine and thought I would mention it, maybe that's it.. 
Till now all what I read about the clothes were that they were indeed Meredith's but I didn't read anything about traces being found on them..
The postal police noticed it was running, and when Filomena arrived she noticed it was still warm...So the only person who could have put it on was Amanda...
Till now all what I read about the clothes were that they were indeed Meredith's but I didn't read anything about traces being found on them..
The postal police noticed it was running, and when Filomena arrived she noticed it was still warm...So the only person who could have put it on was Amanda...
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by CherokeeKid » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:02 pm
Hannie wrote:You would think that there must have been more blood outside Meredith's room, for them to leave so many bloody footprints...because as far as I know, no barefooted prints were found in Meredith's room. And I also didn't read if there's evidence of cleaned up prints there either..
So where was the blood under Amanda's/Raffaele feet coming from?
It seems the bloody shoe prints and footprints are from Meredith's blood. There was a lot of blood in her room.
Maybe they put something on the floor to avoid tracking it all over the house, a blanket or towels or the comforter they later used to cover her body up with. Maybe even her clothes which were later found in the washing machine.
Maybe they had stepped with only one foot in the blood. And that's why only the footprint of a right foot was found.
Maybe they did some cleaning in Meredith's room as well. To just remove the obvious bloody footprints. I don't know.
Just some thoughts.
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by CherokeeKid » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:05 pm
Hannie wrote:I was fixating on your avatar and got a vision about the washing machine and thought I would mention it, maybe that's it..
Till now all what I read about the clothes were that they were indeed Meredith's but I didn't read anything about traces being found on them..
The postal police noticed it was running, and when Filomena arrived she noticed it was still warm...So the only person who could have put it on was Amanda...
I'm curious if more evidence will be presented by the prosecutors in court? Or are they done?
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:30 pm
As far as I know they are done, CK They will give their closings ( I suppose) in and around October, because the verdicts will be expected then..That part of the Italian Justice system isn't quite clear to me, yet..
Last edited by Hannie on Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Hannie » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:32 pm
CherokeeKid wrote:
It seems the bloody shoe prints and footprints are from Meredith's blood. There was a lot of blood in her room.
Maybe they put something on the floor to avoid tracking it all over the house, a blanket or towels or the comforter they later used to cover her body up with. Maybe even her clothes which were later found in the washing machine.
Maybe they had stepped with only one foot in the blood. And that's why only the footprint of a right foot was found.
Maybe they did some cleaning in Meredith's room as well. To just remove the obvious bloody footprints. I don't know.
Just some thoughts.
That could be very well the case, because those are the only reasons I can think of, why there are only footprints of a right foot
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by CherokeeKid » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:53 am
Hannie wrote:As far as I know they are done, CK They will give their closings ( I suppose) in and around October, because the verdicts will be expected then..That part of the Italian Justice system isn't quite clear to me, yet..
Thanks, Hannie.
I was just wondering if the prosecutor is still putting evidence out there in the trial and then the defense had a chance to bring their rebuttal, experts, witnesses. As it seems to me there are still lots of unanswered questions from issues which had been mentioned in the past, like two significant fingerprints of Raffaele. Or if anything came out in regards of the clothes in the washing machine etc.
Before the summer break, there are still a bunch of court dates set. Like tomorrow, well actually today! LOL
Trial Dates
Next dates announced: June 23, 26-27, July 3-4, 6, 8, 10-11, 13, 15, 17-18
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by CherokeeKid » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:02 am
Those bloody footprints and shoe prints can get confusing! Here is an excerpt from "True Justice" which states that none of the bloody footprints matched Rudy's. You were probably right, Hannie:
Despite the cleanup in Filomena’s bedroom, the police were still able to obtain DNA samples. Guede’s DNA was not found in either the bathroom or Filomena’s bedroom.
Six bloody footprints from bare feet were identified. One was visible to the naked eye in the bathroom and five were visible only after the police used luminol, which allows blood evidence cleaned by bleach to become visible under a special light. The luminol did reveal five bloody footprints that had been cleaned up (one shoe print was also found under Meredith’s pillow - the print is consistent with the size of Amanda’s shoe).
None of the six bloody footprints are consistent with the size of Guede’s feet. All six of these footprints are consistent with the size of Amanda and/or Sollecito’s feet.
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php
Despite the cleanup in Filomena’s bedroom, the police were still able to obtain DNA samples. Guede’s DNA was not found in either the bathroom or Filomena’s bedroom.
Six bloody footprints from bare feet were identified. One was visible to the naked eye in the bathroom and five were visible only after the police used luminol, which allows blood evidence cleaned by bleach to become visible under a special light. The luminol did reveal five bloody footprints that had been cleaned up (one shoe print was also found under Meredith’s pillow - the print is consistent with the size of Amanda’s shoe).
None of the six bloody footprints are consistent with the size of Guede’s feet. All six of these footprints are consistent with the size of Amanda and/or Sollecito’s feet.
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php
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More about bloody footprints:
by CherokeeKid » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:05 am
The Machine
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 pm
Offline
The evidence given tomorrow will hopefully shed some light on the significance of some of the forensic evidence.
"They will describe how just one fingerprint from Knox was found at the scene - on a glass in the kitchen - despite the fact she lived there.
Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini says it indicates the flat was cleaned after the murder.
They will also tell the court about a faint bloody footprint found in Knox's bedroom as well as a shoe print found under Meredith's body which they say is Knox's.
Other evidence, they will explain, is the mixed blood found on a tap in the bathroom which contained DNA from Knox and Meredith. "(Sky News)
http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org ... html#p9386
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 pm
Offline
The evidence given tomorrow will hopefully shed some light on the significance of some of the forensic evidence.
"They will describe how just one fingerprint from Knox was found at the scene - on a glass in the kitchen - despite the fact she lived there.
Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini says it indicates the flat was cleaned after the murder.
They will also tell the court about a faint bloody footprint found in Knox's bedroom as well as a shoe print found under Meredith's body which they say is Knox's.
Other evidence, they will explain, is the mixed blood found on a tap in the bathroom which contained DNA from Knox and Meredith. "(Sky News)
http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org ... html#p9386
Wolf Wisdom-
CherokeeKid - Posts: 12719
- Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 12:39 am
by CherokeeKid » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:12 am
Came across the knife and thought I post it here as the dimensions of this knife were sometimes confusing:
Patrizia Stefanoni has not stated that Meredith’s DNA was extracted 500 times from the knife sample, as some people with what seemed a google-level knowledge of molecular biology were claiming to muddy the waters.
The DNA was actually extracted 50 times from Meredith’s specimens and was used to compare it to other biological traces, including the one found on the knife. And it provided the forensic team with good samples to be compared to the traces found on the knife.
Two genetic profiles are identical and therefore belong to the same individual if a) they are in the same position, and b) they have identical shape and dimension. In this case, each peak produced in the original samples exactly corresponds to the peaks yielded by the knife sample, position, shape and dimension… Say so long to the “matching half of Italy” myth!
Furthermore, Stefanoni excluded any possibility of contamination in the lab, stating that it had never once occurred in her lab for at least the last seven years, and every precaution was taken in order to exclude possibility of contamination so that different traces are not mixed.
Contamination during the collection phase was also excluded: the forensic team that found the knife was a different one from those who searched the cottage, so how could Meredith’s DNA possibly have been “transferred to the knife”?
Furthermore, the knife was put in a shoe box after it was bagged, and it stayed there until it reached the lab. And once again… DNA doesn’t fly, it doesn’t creep, and it sure doesnt penetrate a plastic bag!
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C339/
Patrizia Stefanoni has not stated that Meredith’s DNA was extracted 500 times from the knife sample, as some people with what seemed a google-level knowledge of molecular biology were claiming to muddy the waters.
The DNA was actually extracted 50 times from Meredith’s specimens and was used to compare it to other biological traces, including the one found on the knife. And it provided the forensic team with good samples to be compared to the traces found on the knife.
Two genetic profiles are identical and therefore belong to the same individual if a) they are in the same position, and b) they have identical shape and dimension. In this case, each peak produced in the original samples exactly corresponds to the peaks yielded by the knife sample, position, shape and dimension… Say so long to the “matching half of Italy” myth!
Furthermore, Stefanoni excluded any possibility of contamination in the lab, stating that it had never once occurred in her lab for at least the last seven years, and every precaution was taken in order to exclude possibility of contamination so that different traces are not mixed.
Contamination during the collection phase was also excluded: the forensic team that found the knife was a different one from those who searched the cottage, so how could Meredith’s DNA possibly have been “transferred to the knife”?
Furthermore, the knife was put in a shoe box after it was bagged, and it stayed there until it reached the lab. And once again… DNA doesn’t fly, it doesn’t creep, and it sure doesnt penetrate a plastic bag!
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C339/
Wolf Wisdom-
CherokeeKid - Posts: 12719
- Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 12:39 am
by CherokeeKid » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:16 am
Oh, and I found the post with the list of evidence again. Wished it would be more detailed:
The Machine
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:00 pm
Hi Thoughtful,
1. I quoted Barbie Nadeau, who wrote in Newsweek that Filomena Romanelli testified in court that the washing machine was warm when she arrived at the scene. It's your choice whether you believe Barbie or not.
2. I quoted Andrea Vogt, who wrote in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer that Diya Lumumba testified in court that Amanda Knox had been limited to handing out flyers.
3. I quoted the London Evening Standard, which isn't a tabloid, about Diya Lumumba offering Meredith work at Le Chic. Nicki has subsequently provided further confirmation that Diya Lumumba claimed he had offered Meredith work at Le Chic on Italian television.
I trust Barbie Nadeau, Andrea Vogt and Nicki. I've provided sources for my information from two reputable journalists and a reputable newspaper. I don't have access to verbatim statements made in court and even if I did, I suspect you wouldn't trust them unless they were personally signed and delivered by Filomena Romanelli and Diya Lumumba.
There are seven pieces of forensic evidence against Amanda Knox, including the following:
1. The double DNA knife
2. Three instances of her DNA mixed with Meredith's blood (on a tap of the basin, the bidet and a cotton swab container).
3. Her footprints set in Meredith's blood.
There are six pieces of forensic evidence against Raffaele Sollecito, including the following:
1. His DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.
2. His bloody footprint on the blue bathmat.
3. His luminol footprint in the hallway.
4. Two partial fingerprints. The significance of these fingerprints haven't been explained yet.
There were 10 pieces of forensic evidence against Rudy Guede. Judge Paolo Micheli discusses the foresic evidence against Guede in his official report. His DNA was found on a vaginal swab, on Meredith's tracksuit top, on Meredith's bra and I'm assuming in the faeces in the toilet. His bloody fingerprint was found on Meredith's purse.
http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org ... tml#p10876
The Machine
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:00 pm
Hi Thoughtful,
1. I quoted Barbie Nadeau, who wrote in Newsweek that Filomena Romanelli testified in court that the washing machine was warm when she arrived at the scene. It's your choice whether you believe Barbie or not.
2. I quoted Andrea Vogt, who wrote in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer that Diya Lumumba testified in court that Amanda Knox had been limited to handing out flyers.
3. I quoted the London Evening Standard, which isn't a tabloid, about Diya Lumumba offering Meredith work at Le Chic. Nicki has subsequently provided further confirmation that Diya Lumumba claimed he had offered Meredith work at Le Chic on Italian television.
I trust Barbie Nadeau, Andrea Vogt and Nicki. I've provided sources for my information from two reputable journalists and a reputable newspaper. I don't have access to verbatim statements made in court and even if I did, I suspect you wouldn't trust them unless they were personally signed and delivered by Filomena Romanelli and Diya Lumumba.
There are seven pieces of forensic evidence against Amanda Knox, including the following:
1. The double DNA knife
2. Three instances of her DNA mixed with Meredith's blood (on a tap of the basin, the bidet and a cotton swab container).
3. Her footprints set in Meredith's blood.
There are six pieces of forensic evidence against Raffaele Sollecito, including the following:
1. His DNA on Meredith's bra clasp.
2. His bloody footprint on the blue bathmat.
3. His luminol footprint in the hallway.
4. Two partial fingerprints. The significance of these fingerprints haven't been explained yet.
There were 10 pieces of forensic evidence against Rudy Guede. Judge Paolo Micheli discusses the foresic evidence against Guede in his official report. His DNA was found on a vaginal swab, on Meredith's tracksuit top, on Meredith's bra and I'm assuming in the faeces in the toilet. His bloody fingerprint was found on Meredith's purse.
http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org ... tml#p10876
Wolf Wisdom-
CherokeeKid - Posts: 12719
- Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 12:39 am
by yankee-in-france » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:42 am
Thanks, CK and Hannie, for your analysis .. great job.
I think that Rudy was somewhat truthful in his statement such as:
1. He did have a need to use the bathroom.
2. He did hear a horrific scream.
I think that it was while he was in the bathroom that the fatal stabbing was done. Rudy must have pulled up his pants and literally run out of the cottage.
Who murdered Meredith? I don't think that it was Raffaele. I think that it was Amanda but Raffaele was present and knew that he was certainly involved and I bet Amanda came up with the cleanup idea and he agreed. Yeah, for a person who was apparently a slob, Amanda decides to clean the place the morning after the murder ... very strange. I am also convinced that Rudy's feces weren't flushed away because it placed Rudy in the apartment. Perhaps he had no blood on him .. OK his DNA was found on the vaginal swab but he could claim that the sex activity was consensual which is what he did claim. I don't understand why he just didn't tell the truth unless he felt that the jury and judge wouldn't believe him.
I think that Rudy was somewhat truthful in his statement such as:
1. He did have a need to use the bathroom.
2. He did hear a horrific scream.
I think that it was while he was in the bathroom that the fatal stabbing was done. Rudy must have pulled up his pants and literally run out of the cottage.
Who murdered Meredith? I don't think that it was Raffaele. I think that it was Amanda but Raffaele was present and knew that he was certainly involved and I bet Amanda came up with the cleanup idea and he agreed. Yeah, for a person who was apparently a slob, Amanda decides to clean the place the morning after the murder ... very strange. I am also convinced that Rudy's feces weren't flushed away because it placed Rudy in the apartment. Perhaps he had no blood on him .. OK his DNA was found on the vaginal swab but he could claim that the sex activity was consensual which is what he did claim. I don't understand why he just didn't tell the truth unless he felt that the jury and judge wouldn't believe him.
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yankee-in-france - YIF
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