Why the big deal?

[K_Meine]

Specifically what hard evidence has Joran provided against himself?

Here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHprZqEz9qI

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Is it "hard" evidence that could be used in a court of law? Apparently not. However, this is not a court room but a virtual discussion board. If all we based our opinions on had to be court approved evidence there wouldn't be much to discuss.

[iquitos]

the scientologist queen of the faux screen he sold her to a guy for $10,000. the courts did not think much of his drug induced "confession" to peterick adducing to him a personality disorder.

[prolific]

Here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHprZqEz9qI

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Is it "hard" evidence that could be used in a court of law? Apparently not. However, this is not a court room but a virtual discussion board. If all we based our opinions on had to be court approved evidence there wouldn't be much to discuss.

Haven't you heard...everything he said was 'only' because, he was just telling Patrick what he wanted to hear, he was trying to impress a gangster hoping they could go into the pot business together, he was high and didn't know what he was saying, he was on to Patrick, him and Patrick were in on it together and scamming money out of DeVries to get back at him...so everything in that video needs to be dismissed, just forget it, it's worthless.

Well everything except for that one part about seizures that is...that's all true..after all that sure does fit nicely with the Natalee drank and drugged herself to death, no fault of the prime suspect and no body necessary. And if you really want proof, just google cocaine overdose and by golly there it is, seizures.... just pay no attention though to what you see when you google date rape drug...
Signs And Symptoms
Dizziness
Nausea
Vomiting
Unconsciousness
Memory loss
Difficulty breathing
Seizures
Coma

[Heli]

When the signs and symptoms of overdose of cocaine or any other drug, legal or illegal, or a lethal interaction of alcohol and drugs of any kind are the same, there is no valid conclusion that can be arrived at. And that's whether you're in a courtroom or a living room. To do otherwise, is nothing more than vigilantism and choosing the option that best fits the individual's agenda and arms' length information.

Follow the valid evidence to a conclusion not the reverse. Isn't that the criteria we all would hope to be judged by in law and in life?

[jolari]

Any suspects on your list?

Personally, I don't believe that Natalee saw anyone or anything after Joran.

nope, no particular suspect/s.

[K_Meine]

When the signs and symptoms of overdose of cocaine or any other drug, legal or illegal, or a lethal interaction of alcohol and drugs of any kind are the same, there is no valid conclusion that can be arrived at. And that's whether you're in a courtroom or a living room. To do otherwise, is nothing more than vigilantism and choosing the option that best fits the individual's agenda and arms' length information.

Follow the valid evidence to a conclusion not the reverse. Isn't that the criteria we all would hope to be judged by in law and in life?

That would have been the criteria had all the original evidence been available. What remains, if anything, is obviously useless. The proper collection of evidence was not completed in a timely, professional and unobstructed manner and that forever tainted the quality of this investigation. The most damning piece, Natalee's body, certainly didn't move itself and was obviously discarded for any number of reasons. Given enough time any crime scene can disappear and that is what was allowed to happen here.

Dead, call, boat, splash,home, sleep - key evidence gone. No case. It wasn't hard.

[petals]

That would have been the criteria had all the original evidence been available. What remains, if anything, is obviously useless. The proper collection of evidence was not completed in a timely, professional and unobstructed manner and that forever tainted the quality of this investigation. The most damning piece, Natalee's body, certainly didn't move itself and was obviously discarded for any number of reasons. Given enough time any crime scene can disappear and that is what was allowed to happen here.

Dead, call, boat, splash,home, sleep - key evidence gone. No case. It wasn't hard.

Or perhaps all the evidence that may have ever existed was already on the bottom of the sea before anyone even knew that Natalee was missing. From your second paragraph, it looks like you, too, subscribe to that theory. Yet, for some reason, you still think that there was evidence that ALE would have unearthed if they had completed a "collection of evidence" in a "timely, professional and unobstructed manner." How does that work?

[Slickster]

That would have been the criteria had all the original evidence been available. What remains, if anything, is obviously useless. The proper collection of evidence was not completed in a timely, professional and unobstructed manner and that forever tainted the quality of this investigation. The most damning piece, Natalee's body, certainly didn't move itself and was obviously discarded for any number of reasons. Given enough time any crime scene can disappear and that is what was allowed to happen here.

Dead, call, boat, splash,home, sleep - key evidence gone. No case. It wasn't hard.

Alive, high, call, plane - evidence hightailed off the island.
No case, just keep spinning it towards Joran.
Roll Tide and High!

[iquitos]

in holland. who provided the boat? why were there no witnesses? what about the radar? too complicated for the timeline. what original evidence. there is none. not only is there not a body, there is no crime scene, no weapon, no motive, you know the drill. if she passed out why not just leave her lay which is what joran (at one point) said he did? calling a disposal team seems a little extreme.

[resigned]

When the signs and symptoms of overdose of cocaine or any other drug, legal or illegal, or a lethal interaction of alcohol and drugs of any kind are the same, there is no valid conclusion that can be arrived at. And that's whether you're in a courtroom or a living room. To do otherwise, is nothing more than vigilantism and choosing the option that best fits the individual's agenda and arms' length information.

Follow the valid evidence to a conclusion not the reverse. Isn't that the criteria we all would hope to be judged by in law and in life?

LOL ...there is more evidence to judge Joran knows what happened to Natalee than there is..."the signs and symptoms of overdose of cocaine or any other drug, legal or illegal, or a lethal interaction of alcohol and drugs of any kind are the same"...but yet that doesn't stop these alleged cause of death scenarios.

[Slickster]

LOL ...there is more evidence to judge Joran knows what happened to Natalee than there is..."the signs and symptoms of overdose of cocaine or any other drug, legal or illegal, or a lethal interaction of alcohol and drugs of any kind are the same"...but yet that doesn't stop these alleged cause of death scenarios.

There "isn't any evidence" to judge Joran knows what happened to Natalee.
Quite obvious after 4+ yrs.
However there is lots of evidence of Mountain Brook, Alabama pointing to Aruba.
4+ yrs worth.

When one points to Aruba, there are 3 back pointing at MB!
Just sayin...


Roll Tide!

[resigned]

When one points to Aruba, there are 3 back pointing at MB!
Just sayin...


Roll Tide!

Yes - that became increasingly more apparent some time in 2006 to me- a lot earlier to some others.......... and not at all to just a few . .......But it will never change the fact that Natalee Holloway has not been seen or heard from since Joran van der Sloot allegedly left her at the beach on May 30, 2005.

[luvslalom]

When the signs and symptoms of overdose of cocaine or any other drug, legal or illegal, or a lethal interaction of alcohol and drugs of any kind are the same, there is no valid conclusion that can be arrived at. And that's whether you're in a courtroom or a living room. To do otherwise, is nothing more than vigilantism and choosing the option that best fits the individual's agenda and arms' length information.

Follow the valid evidence to a conclusion not the reverse. Isn't that the criteria we all would hope to be judged by in law and in life?

ITA.
What about moral laws?

http://webster.utahbar.org/barjournal/2 ... the_t.html

Excerpt:

On other occasions, a client’s story may repeatedly change as the lawyer’s investigation of the client’s statements and other facts reveal that the client probably has been lying to the lawyer. Does the lawyer do a disservice to the client and the court by not vigorously confronting the client with the inconsistent statements and requiring that the client be truthful? And wouldn’t the client be better served as a human being (and society as well) if the lawyer took the time to talk to the client about taking responsibility for his or her mistakes, making amends to any victim, and leading a more productive and moral life? To both of these questions, I wholeheartedly say “yes.”

From what I have gathered, Antonio Carlo went to Jannsen with a confession he didn't want on paper, and Jannsen made it public, therefore Carlo was off the case. He shut up rather than councelling his client. Joe Tacapino came on interviews with stories they have seen Natalee on film after Joran left her at the beach. So why is he not free of suspect status then, since they have the proof Natalee was alive and well after the beach?
What Joe is doing/did is morally wrong. He has allowed a situation of "na na, na na na...catch me if you can, rather than councel his client, and Joran has not really shown that he takes much responsibility for any of his actions. The blame goes everywhere...to Peter deVries, the Kalpoes, van der Eem (tells him what he thinks van der Eem wants to hear...well van der Eem apparently wanted the truth) even his parents.
Other than severe (supposedly) interrogation, no one has done anything with all the story changes.

[WordsofWisdom]

But it will never change the fact that Natalee Holloway has not been seen or heard from since Joran van der Sloot allegedly left her at the beach on May 30, 2005.

AGAIN...... not a "FACT".
You do not KNOW if she has "been seen or heard from since Joran van der Sloot allegedly left her at the beach on May 30, 2005".

And if you believe Beth Holloway Twitty... SOMEONE heard from Natalee.... How else would Beth "know" that Natalee was raped?

[WordsofWisdom]

The most damning piece, Natalee's body, certainly didn't move itself and was obviously discarded for any number of reasons. Given enough time any crime scene can disappear and that is what was allowed to happen here.

Natalee's "body" could most certainly have moved itself.

The lack of a crime scene or a "body", is also indicative that there was no crime, and Natalee simply got the hell out of Dodge all by herself.

[resigned]

AGAIN...... not a "FACT".
You do not KNOW if she has "been seen or heard from since Joran van der Sloot allegedly left her at the beach on May 30, 2005".

And if you believe Beth Holloway Twitty... SOMEONE heard from Natalee.... How else would Beth "know" that Natalee was raped?

A leaked-by-an-Aruban unsigned police statement that was allegedly just an interrogation tactic by ALE - but you "know" that.

[Slickster]

Yes - that became increasingly more apparent some time in 2006 to me- a lot earlier to some others.......... and not at all to just a few . .......But it will never change the fact that Natalee Holloway has not been seen or heard from since Joran van der Sloot allegedly left her at the beach on May 30, 2005.

I hear ya, loud and clear.
Now back to the lack of evidence and Mountain Brook, Alabama hidey holing up.


Can ya explain that???

[resigned]

I hear ya, loud and clear.
Now back to the lack of evidence and Mountain Brook, Alabama hidey holing up.


Can ya explain that???

No and I doubt if anyone else can explain yet another nonsensical rambling "IT" "IT" "IT" - "Thomas TwITty" "Roll Tide" "Perp Walk" ........If YOU can, please go ahead and do so.


eta: old saying .........."shIT or get off of the pot already"


Just saying......

[WordsofWisdom]

A leaked-by-an-Aruban unsigned police statement that was allegedly just an interrogation tactic by ALE - but you "know" that.

Who was the "Aruban"?
Unsigned?
And you use that to support your theory?

Oh my.....

[resigned]

And you use that to support your theory?

No.

[iquitos]

From what I have gathered, Antonio Carlo went to Jannsen with a confession he didn't want on paper, and Jannsen made it public, therefore Carlo was off the case. He shut up rather than councelling his client. Joe Tacapino came on interviews with stories they have seen Natalee on film after Joran left her at the beach. So why is he not free of suspect status then, since they have the proof Natalee was alive and well after the beach?
What Joe is doing/did is morally wrong. He has allowed a situation of "na na, na na na...catch me if you can, rather than councel his client, and Joran has not really shown that he takes much responsibility for any of his actions. The blame goes everywhere...to Peter deVries, the Kalpoes, van der Eem (tells him what he thinks van der Eem wants to hear...well van der Eem apparently wanted the truth) even his parents.
Other than severe (supposedly) interrogation, no one has done anything with all the story changes.

carlo was off the case?

[resigned]

June 15, 2005

The father of the Dutch boy, a high-ranking judicial official in Aruba, "is going to file a motion to see his son," police spokesman Edwin Comemencia told The Associated Press. The son is an honors student at Aruba International School.

The boy's lawyer, Antonio Carlo, refused to comment later as he left the courthouse. Attorney General Caren Janssen also left without comment. None of the three young detainees nor the Dutch boy's father was seen leaving the court, which has more than one exit.

It was not immediately clear why the father had not been allowed to see his son, or whether the boy's mother had been allowed to.

Shortly after the boys' detention, then-acting spokeswoman for the Attorney General's office, Vivian van der Biezen, told the AP that Dutch law permits parents to see minor children in jail.

Antonio Carlo, the lawyer for the detained 17-year-old Dutch boy, leaves the courthouse on Wednesday. (AP)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/ ... g=untagged

June 17, 2005

The judge granted a petition by van der Sloot's father, Paul, to visit his son in jail, but then reversed the decision. Paul van der Sloot is a judge-in-training, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases.

Also Friday, the court barred van der Sloot's lawyer, Antonio Carlo, from visiting the teen, effectively removing him from the case, said Attorney General spokeswoman Mariaine Croes.

As a result, the van der Sloots retained two more attorneys for the defense of their son, Richie Kock and Arjan Debie.

The court granted prosecutors' request to remove Carlo because he had visited one of two former security guards who had been detained and released in the case, authorities said.

Croes said the Dutch teenager has a team of lawyers, so Carlo's removal will not leave van der Sloot without representation. The spokeswoman is not related to Steve Croes.

Carlo did not return calls seeking comment.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

----------

Carlo & van der Sloot

Carlo & van der Sloot is located in the island of Aruba, Dutch Caribbean. We are a full service law firm, with attorneys who practice in all areas of the law. The attorneys of our law firm are members of the Bar of Aruba and of the Netherlands Antilles and are licensed to practice in both jurisdictions.

[K Hemingway]

When post starts off with a lie...

The father of the Dutch boy, a high-ranking judicial official in Aruba

I just scroll on by.

[resigned]

Paul A.P.J. van der Sloot, born in the Netherlands (1952), graduated from the University of Tilburg, the Netherlands (LL.M., 1979). Before going into private practice Mr. van der Sloot worked ten years in social legal aid in the Netherlands, four years in the Aruban Government, eight years in the public prosecution and three years as a judge. He was admitted to the bar in 2006. His practice focuses mainly on administrative law and mediation.


http://www.carlolawoffice.com/attorneys/index.html
Paulus bio on the firm's website states pretty much the same.

[K Hemingway]

Social legal aid and replacement judge not high-ranking.