All or nothing...

[K_Meine]

I came across this article and it really made me think about the darker side of humanity.

Mos said he and the Holloway family feel pursuing a minor charge "doesn't serve a purpose."

A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

The search for Holloway spanned more than two years and involved hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets laden with search equipment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

He said he does not anticipate ever finding Holloway's remains.

"It's very hard to try a case without a body," he said. "It's not impossible, but you need substantial evidence that somebody was killed."

Doesn't serve a purpose? Only 6 months for disappearing a body, potentially a live one at that? So Beth couldn't get Joran put away for 25 years so the hell with it all together. That's weak. Thoughts on this?

[iquitos]

nail him on anything you can find if you really think he killed her but can't prove it. i doubt they could even sustain the disposal charge on evidence which tells me it didn't happen.
they don't go to court because they are embarrassed at how little they know. oe explanation is they went off half cocked at the beginning following some dubious leads on a platter and were kept in the dark while the family schemed to sneak a live natalee off the island on a medical aircraft.

[Hannie]

Besides that this is already answered a couple of times. Joran already spend time in jail, so even if they did have evidence he disappeared a body, which they haven't. The jail time would have been already served..

I don't call it weak, but thank God it's the law....NEOACSNS....

[K_Meine]

nail him on anything you can find if you really think he killed her but can't prove it. i doubt they could even sustain the disposal charge on evidence which tells me it didn't happen.
they don't go to court because they are embarrassed at how little they know. oe explanation is they went off half cocked at the beginning following some dubious leads on a platter and were kept in the dark while the family schemed to sneak a live natalee off the island on a medical aircraft.

But on the flip side consider all the benefits of this minor charge Mos alludes to:

Beth gets some degree of closure.
Joran finally takes responsibility for what he has said, serves his time and moves on with his life.
The ALE and Aruba benefit from having some degree of justice served and regain their prior dignity.

The point being is that we as humans need to be corrected when we do wrong against others. Otherwise, history has a tendency of repeating itself. I don't care if the sentence is a week. Joran needs to learn the lesson that what he SAYS he did was wrong. How would you like it if you woke up tomorrow morning and someone threw you away? I wouldn't like it.

[Slickster]

But on the flip side consider all the benefits of this minor charge Mos alludes to:

Beth gets some degree of closure.
Joran finally takes responsibility for what he has said, serves his time and moves on with his life.
The ALE and Aruba benefit from having some degree of justice served and regain their prior dignity.

The point being is that we as humans need to be corrected when we do wrong against others. Otherwise, history has a tendency of repeating itself. I don't care if the sentence is a week. Joran needs to learn the lesson that what he SAYS he did was wrong. How would you like it if you woke up tomorrow morning and someone threw you away? I wouldn't like it.

Anyone but Mountain Brook Alabama!!!
MB-with the history of covering one's asses!

This board has become totally biased towards the Joran is Guilty, nobody else.
With no proof of evidence, but yet noone here will ever focus anywhere but.
OH, thats right, MB is always right, Aruba is wrong!

Welcome to the Tiny Kingdom of Mountain Brook, Alabama.
Totally hideous place of all reality to live, imho.
Roll Tide!!!

A-holes the whole lot of yall/MB.
Trust me, I know.

[iquitos]

joran deserves some closure too. i don't think they have anything to go to court with.

[Gregor]

Mos said he and the Holloway family feel pursuing a minor charge "doesn't serve a purpose."

BS!

Even if Joran got credit for time served they'd have three months to question him and play mind games.

If they could convict him for jay walking they would.

[K_Meine]

Anyone but Mountain Brook Alabama!!!
MB-with the history of covering one's asses!

This board has become totally biased towards the Joran is Guilty, nobody else.
With no proof of evidence, but yet noone here will ever focus anywhere but.
OH, thats right, MB is always right, Aruba is wrong!

Welcome to the Tiny Kingdom of Mountain Brook, Alabama.
Totally hideous place of all reality to live, imho.
Roll Tide!!!

A-holes the whole lot of yall/MB.
Trust me, I know.

Slick,

I'm sure the students and chaperones from Mountain Brook have plenty to answer for so this isn't just about Joran and his peers. Had they kept their eyes on one another this event would never have transpired.

Now it's become painfully obvious you hold quite a bit of resentment towards nearly all thing Mountain Brook. I'm sure you have your reasons but as of yet it is unclear what those reasons are. Regardless, it appears the general consensus in the minds of the authorities is that the "answers" do not lie in Mountain Brook but in Joran Van Der Sloot.

Suffice it to say Joran has provided more fodder and suspicion than anyone from Mountain Brook has which is why he is in the position he is in.

Totally hideous place of all reality to live, imho.
Roll Tide!!!
Wanker Wanker

If you dislike living in MB so much why don't you ask your parents to move?

[cajun_mali]

How would you feel about being jailed 3 months without even being charged with a crime? And ALE wanted to keep holding Joran until he admitted to something. I bet it makes you feel proud of ALE's efforts.

I came across this article and it really made me think about the darker side of humanity.

Mos said he and the Holloway family feel pursuing a minor charge "doesn't serve a purpose."

A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

The search for Holloway spanned more than two years and involved hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets laden with search equipment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

He said he does not anticipate ever finding Holloway's remains.

"It's very hard to try a case without a body," he said. "It's not impossible, but you need substantial evidence that somebody was killed."

Doesn't serve a purpose? Only 6 months for disappearing a body, potentially a live one at that? So Beth couldn't get Joran put away for 25 years so the hell with it all together. That's weak. Thoughts on this?

[iquitos]

harsh interrogation regime at gitmo if they could. how sad. they took a wrong fork in the road years back following the posse platter. it is too late to double back.

[resigned]

How would you feel about being jailed 3 months without even being charged with a crime? And ALE wanted to keep holding Joran until he admitted to something. I bet it makes you feel proud of ALE's efforts.

I would be grateful that my Dad worked in the OM and him and his friends helped me out as much as they did, whether it was intentional or not Then I would shut up and not comment whenever the subject was approached.

[cajun_mali]

Lockng him up was certainly intentional on ALE's part.

As much as it seems ALE wanted to railroad Joran, I'm sure he would have appreciated any help he could get. Just out of curiousity, which of his friends helped Joran?

I would be grateful that my Dad worked in the OM and him and his friends helped me out as much as they did, whether it was intentional or not Then I would shut up and not comment whenever the subject was approached.

[resigned]

Lockng him up was certainly intentional on ALE's part.

As much as it seems ALE wanted to railroad Joran, I'm sure he would have appreciated any help he could get. Just out of curiousity, which of his friends helped Joran?

I've never posted that I believe that someone did (or didn't) help Joran...so you go first and guess.....just out of curiosity.

[FloridaDoug]

I came across this article and it really made me think about the darker side of humanity.

Mos said he and the Holloway family feel pursuing a minor charge "doesn't serve a purpose."

A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

The search for Holloway spanned more than two years and involved hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets laden with search equipment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

He said he does not anticipate ever finding Holloway's remains.

"It's very hard to try a case without a body," he said. "It's not impossible, but you need substantial evidence that somebody was killed."

Doesn't serve a purpose? Only 6 months for disappearing a body, potentially a live one at that? So Beth couldn't get Joran put away for 25 years so the hell with it all together. That's weak. Thoughts on this?

IMHO The ALE did not have sufficient evidence for a conviction on body disposal, and they wanted to save face by saying "pursuing a minor charge doesn't serve a purpose."

[yankee-in-france]

-- or maybe they just don't want to prosecute Joran for anything.

Here's a legal hypothetical question for anyone knowledgeable with Aruban law: let's say that they successfully prosecute Joran for body disposal and then down the road a few years, they discovered evidence of bodily harm to Natalee inflicted by Joran. Could they still prosecute him for murder/manslaughter whatever having already prosecuted him for body disposal?

ETA I don't personally believe that Joran physically harmed Natalee, but if ALE was barred from further prosecution because of a conviction on the body disposal charge that might explain why they aren't pursuing the body disposal charge at this time.

[cajun_mali]

I've never posted that I believe that someone did (or didn't) help Joran...so you go first and guess.....just out of curiosity.

I think you just did.

resigned wrote:

I would be grateful that my Dad worked in the OM and him and his friends helped me out as much as they did, whether it was intentional or not Then I would shut up and not comment whenever the subject was approached.

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1105

[Hannie]

-- or maybe they just don't want to prosecute Joran for anything.

Here's a legal hypothetical question for anyone knowledgeable with Aruban law: let's say that they successfully prosecute Joran for body disposal and then down the road a few years, they discovered evidence of bodily harm to Natalee inflicted by Joran. Could they still prosecute him for murder/manslaughter whatever having already prosecuted him for body disposal?

ETA I don't personally believe that Joran physically harmed Natalee, but if ALE was barred from further prosecution because of a conviction on the body disposal charge that might explain why they aren't pursuing the body disposal charge at this time.

I don't know Yif. It's a whole different charge than murder/manslaughter, so on that account I don't think it would be double jeopardy if they would have charged him with disappearing a body.

Plus he would have already served time for this offense if they would have charged him with it, so basically not worth it...

[yankee-in-france]

Thanks, Hannie. I just thought that if it was a double jeopardy situation that Mos wouldn't have prosecuted on a minor offense because he would have been criticized.

[resigned]

I think you just did.

resigned wrote:

I would be grateful that my Dad worked in the OM and him and his friends helped me out as much as they did, whether it was intentional or not Then I would shut up and not comment whenever the subject was approached.

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1105

You were wrong.

If someone helped with a boat - they would know if it was intentional or not. I was thinking advise and delay tactics.

[K_Meine]

How would you feel about being jailed 3 months without even being charged with a crime? And ALE wanted to keep holding Joran until he admitted to something. I bet it makes you feel proud of ALE's efforts.

Let's get a couple things straight first. Joran was jailed for three months because of the way Aruban law is written. IMO three months in jail pails in comparison to the time he should be serving. Let's not forget that Joran was not put in jail for jaywalking. He was/is a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway of which he changed his story of what transpired that evening MULTIPLE times. He had the opportunity to tell the truth and by not sticking to one believable story. He gave the ALE plenty of reason to keep him.

To answer your initial question I wouldn't like it all. However, if I had nothing to hide I certainly wouldn't take the opportunity to lie unnecessarily. All lies are born of a purpose and Joran's were no different. Had Joran used his allowance of one lie wisely at the beginning and just kept his mouth quiet from there. This would have been over ages ago. IMHO it is the quantity of lies that landed and kept him in jail for 3 months.

Proud of the ALE? I'm uncertain what your point is with that comment. AFAIC, many things went wrong from the start. Here my brief synopsis:

Beth should have contacted Aruban authorities immediately upon hearing Natalee was missing. This may have put the ALE behind the eight ball from the start. Then the "how much money do you have" and/or the she'll show up in a day comment doesn't show much urgency. The ALE started slow and was ill equipped to manage the media onslaught that ensued. Keeping Joran for that long may have just been an attempt at saving face and hoping he would crack under pressure. IMHO I think they were equally helped and hindered by there own laws.

[cajun_mali]

Until there is enough proof to convict Joran of SOMETHING, he doesn't deserve a minute in jail for Natalees disappearance.

According to Dompig, there were 3 main stories, the rest was minor differences. Drop off Natalee and all leave; d. o. Nat and J, and D picks up J; d. o. Nat and J and D doesn't p/u J. We know the first is wrong, and we don't know if either of the other 2 are true.

You and I don't know what happened between HMI and ALE.

There's a difference between us. I can get my mind around the idea J may be guilty; you can't get around the idea he may be totally innocent.

Let's get a couple things straight first. Joran was jailed for three months because of the way Aruban law is written. IMO three months in jail pails in comparison to the time he should be serving. Let's not forget that Joran was not put in jail for jaywalking. He was/is a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway of which he changed his story of what transpired that evening MULTIPLE times. He had the opportunity to tell the truth and by not sticking to one believable story. He gave the ALE plenty of reason to keep him.

To answer your initial question I wouldn't like it all. However, if I had nothing to hide I certainly wouldn't take the opportunity to lie unnecessarily. All lies are born of a purpose and Joran's were no different. Had Joran used his allowance of one lie wisely at the beginning and just kept his mouth quiet from there. This would have been over ages ago. IMHO it is the quantity of lies that landed and kept him in jail for 3 months.

Proud of the ALE? I'm uncertain what your point is with that comment. AFAIC, many things went wrong from the start. Here my brief synopsis:

Beth should have contacted Aruban authorities immediately upon hearing Natalee was missing. This may have put the ALE behind the eight ball from the start. Then the "how much money do you have" and/or the she'll show up in a day comment doesn't show much urgency. The ALE started slow and was ill equipped to manage the media onslaught that ensued. Keeping Joran for that long may have just been an attempt at saving face and hoping he would crack under pressure. IMHO I think they were equally helped and hindered by there own laws.

[cajun_mali]

You were wrong.

If someone helped with a boat - they would know if it was intentional or not. I was thinking advise and delay tactics.

Okay, you said friends who helped Joran, intentionally or not ... Which friends helped, intentionally or not?

[iquitos]

in another version a buyer came and went (with natalee) by boat. nobody saw any boats. no physical evidence was ever found in a boat. but some insist there was a boat. joran say he lied. we know he lied about the daury part.

[resigned]

Okay, you said friends who helped Joran, intentionally or not ... Which friends helped, intentionally or not?

That's not what I said. That is your interpretation of what I posted. You seem to be more keen on me naming someone specific then actually reading what I posted. ...and no - I'm not naming anyone specific so move on.

[resigned]

Until there is enough proof to convict Joran of SOMETHING, he doesn't deserve a minute in jail for Natalees disappearance.

He hasn't spent a minute in jail for Natalee's disappearance. Questioning, arresting and detaining witnesses/suspects is part of the Dutch legal system. Being the last known person to be seen with Natalee certainly merited him being questioned. The time he spent in jail was due to his own "litany of lies."