All or nothing...

[resigned]

imaginative phase happened later?

No. How do you interpret that from what I posted.?

[cajun_mali]

No. How do you interpret that from what I posted.?

It's not cute anymore.

[sarge]

what happened to natalee. he is only responsible for her to the extent she accepted his help. if she indeed refused to go back to the hotel what is he supposed to do? how would he even begin to imagine these consequences? i am sure he would feel responsible and even guilty but what is he supposed to do? Isn't that what he asked the speech therapist the first night when she bitched him out? what a venal woman.

What about all of that shaking he described?

[K_Meine]

what happened to natalee. he is only responsible for her to the extent she accepted his help. if she indeed refused to go back to the hotel what is he supposed to do? how would he even begin to imagine these consequences? i am sure he would feel responsible and even guilty but what is he supposed to do? Isn't that what he asked the speech therapist the first night when she bitched him out? what a venal woman.

I could agree with much of what you stated had he simply stuck with the "I left her at the beach" scenario from the beginning and exclusively. Albeit people may have thought he was a jerk for leaving a female alone on the beach. He would have been off the hook eventually. Introducing multiple versions only aroused suspicions. Beware of the "over explainer".

[iquitos]

there is a nice piece on npr today about detecting liars. it says innocent people also show anxiety under questioning and which is misinterpreted as tells of lying. joran overexplained after an interregnum of three years to a gangster who gave him drugs to induce an explanation. he then told another whopper to greta allegedly for money. i think in his police interactions he stuck with the basic i left her on the beach.

[iquitos]

No. How do you interpret that from what I posted.?

you are right. joran may be imaginative but i don't see how he could have imagined the mess he got himself into by leaving a woman at the beach because she didn't want to leave and he had to get home. tourists don't usually disappear from the beach in aruba, even at night.

[resigned]

you are right. joran may be imaginative but i don't see how he could have imagined the mess he got himself into by leaving a woman at the beach because she didn't want to leave and he had to get home. tourists don't usually disappear from the beach in aruba, even at night.

But as soon as he heard there were police "outside his house" his imagination went into overdrive and decided it would be best to lie? I don't think so........

[iquitos]

deepak's idea.

[K_Meine]

deepak's idea.

Why did the body HAVE TO disappear? If she "seized" as reported why not just leave it and run?

[WordsofWisdom]

Why did the body HAVE TO disappear? If she "seized" as reported why not just leave it and run?

"It" (the body) didn't disappear. Natalee did.
(well, if you want to call it that)

The rest is just an attempt to bring closure for the general public.

It failed. But they tried.

[WordsofWisdom]

But as soon as he heard there were police "outside his house" his imagination went into overdrive and decided it would be best to lie? I don't think so........

Oh, I do.
For precisely THAT reason.

[WordsofWisdom]

Beware of the "over explainer".

AND the "under explainer".

We know virtually NOTHING about Natalee Holloway.
Even after several books, a made for television movie, and hundreds of hours of interviews with her family and friends.

"It's not relevant."
"We haven't talked about that yet."

Noone wants us to know about the real Natalee.
Ask yourself why.

[WordsofWisdom]

Why did the body HAVE TO disappear? If she "seized" as reported why not just leave it and run?

I assume you are talking about the various talking heads that "reported" that Natalee died from over consumption of drugs (and alcohol). This information supposedly came from a good source.

Well, tell me- who would KNOW
#1. that she died
#2. From drugs and alcohol?

The only person(s) that COULD know would be someone that saw her AFTER JORAN, AND was able to determine cause of death. (duhhh)

A little logic and common sense applied to these ridiculous attempts at ending the controversy certainly makes a difference.

[prolific]

I assume you are talking about the various talking heads that "reported" that Natalee died from over consumption of drugs (and alcohol). This information supposedly came from a good source.

Well, tell me- who would KNOW
#1. that she died
#2. From drugs and alcohol?

The only person(s) that COULD know would be someone that saw her AFTER JORAN, AND was able to determine cause of death. (duhhh)

A little logic and common sense applied to these ridiculous attempts at ending the controversy certainly makes a difference.

Baloney...it was one of their ( ALE..who included FBI) working theories among other theories...they never 'reported' as FACT that Natalee od'd from drugs and alcohol...and there weren't various talking heads.

So then Natalee's body had been found? Who did the autopsy?

The one that 'reported' that she 'seized' was the prime suspect to Patrick.

A little logic and common sense applied to these ridiculous attempts at ending the controversy certainly makes a difference.

[WordsofWisdom]

Baloney...it was one of their ( ALE..who included FBI) working theories among other theories...they never 'reported' as FACT that Natalee od'd from drugs and alcohol...and there weren't various talking heads.

Yes Bill O'Reilly (among at least one other) stated it as FACT.


FOXNEWS.COM HOME > U.S.
Source: Natalee Holloway Died of Drug Overdose

Friday, July 20, 2007

Natalee Holloway

B.O. Stated:

Natalee Holloway died from cardiac arrest caused by an accidental drug overdose, a source has told The O'Reilly Factor.

"The Factor has learned from sources we have to protect that Natalee Holloway, the 18-year-old Alabama woman who disappeared two years ago in Aruba, died from cardiac arrest brought on by an overdose of cocaine," Bill O'Reilly said on his Thursday program.

NOT STATED:
The theory offered by the source, a top law enforcement official, could not be confirmed independently because Holloway's body has not been found.

[WordsofWisdom]

The one that 'reported' that she 'seized' was the prime suspect to Patrick.

He was not the only one.

[prolific]

Baloney...it was one of their ( ALE..who included FBI) working theories among other theories...they never 'reported' as FACT that Natalee od'd from drugs and alcohol...and there weren't various talking heads.

Yes Bill O'Reilly (among at least one other) stated it as FACT.


FOXNEWS.COM HOME > U.S.
Source: Natalee Holloway Died of Drug Overdose

Friday, July 20, 2007

Natalee Holloway

B.O. Stated:

Natalee Holloway died from cardiac arrest caused by an accidental drug overdose, a source has told The O'Reilly Factor.

"The Factor has learned from sources we have to protect that Natalee Holloway, the 18-year-old Alabama woman who disappeared two years ago in Aruba, died from cardiac arrest brought on by an overdose of cocaine," Bill O'Reilly said on his Thursday program.

NOT STATED:
The theory offered by the source, a top law enforcement official, could not be confirmed independently because Holloway's body has not been found.

The theory offered by the source, a top law enforcement official, could not be confirmed independently because Holloway's body has not been found. Why you would choose to add 'not stated' to dismiss it is odd.

The FBI source, a top Aruban LE official..

48 hours.....we heard it all already....been there done that.

But if you choose to believe that the FBI and the Aruban and Dutch authorities came to the 'conclusion', not one of their working 'theories', that Natalee od'd on coke AFTER she left the prime suspect, without needing her body or an autopsy that's certainly your perogative.

As far as your other post about 'he was not the only one' who reported her seizing ( and in order for those others to report her seizing they must have witnessed her seizing?) and had no relation whatsoever to the prime suspect and it was AFTER she left the prime suspect and every Aruban investigator...Dutch investigator.....KLPD who went thru every file in the dossier....FBI who worked with investigators.....every OM up to and including Mos knew about it.... it was in the files all these years and they still focused on the prime suspect even to this day......either that or or none of them had a clue it was right in their own files.... then what does that say about their investigating that we've been told was above and beyond what any other LE agency would do, did more than any other investigators in any other case just trying to solve the case, brought in investigators form everywhere trying to solve the case, got glowing reviews from Bachus and the FBI, spent 40% of their budget trying to solve the case?

[Luke Davis]

I came across this article and it really made me think about the darker side of humanity.

Mos said he and the Holloway family feel pursuing a minor charge "doesn't serve a purpose."

A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

The search for Holloway spanned more than two years and involved hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets laden with search equipment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

He said he does not anticipate ever finding Holloway's remains.

"It's very hard to try a case without a body," he said. "It's not impossible, but you need substantial evidence that somebody was killed."

Doesn't serve a purpose? Only 6 months for disappearing a body, potentially a live one at that? So Beth couldn't get Joran put away for 25 years so the hell with it all together. That's weak. Thoughts on this?

Wouldn't the time he has already served count? So, a conviction would break even?

[resigned]

Wouldn't the time he has already served count? So, a conviction would break even?

I bet Paulus knows. I bet he also knows the difference between being convicted and just calling it even-steven for a Joran "panic attack".

[sarge]

Even if he would get credit for time served, Wouldn't he have a conviction on his record if the judge(s) ruled against him? Is body disposal a felony or misdemeanor in Holland?

[iquitos]

I bet Paulus knows. I bet he also knows the difference between being convicted and just calling it even-steven for a Joran "panic attack".

if not, he can look it up at the law library. geen lijk geen zaak.

[resigned]

if not, he can look it up at the law library. geen lijk geen zaak.

That certainly has been the "defense" strategy from day one.

[cajun_mali]

Even if he would get credit for time served, Wouldn't he have a conviction on his record if the judge(s) ruled against him? Is body disposal a felony or misdemeanor in Holland?

J can't even get arrested for what they have. There is no evidence. No matter why you feel there isn't any, it's simply not there.

[cajun_mali]

I came across this article and it really made me think about the darker side of humanity.

Mos said he and the Holloway family feel pursuing a minor charge "doesn't serve a purpose."

A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

The search for Holloway spanned more than two years and involved hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets laden with search equipment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

He said he does not anticipate ever finding Holloway's remains.

"It's very hard to try a case without a body," he said. "It's not impossible, but you need substantial evidence that somebody was killed."

Doesn't serve a purpose? Only 6 months for disappearing a body, potentially a live one at that? So Beth couldn't get Joran put away for 25 years so the hell with it all together. That's weak. Thoughts on this?

Yes, something happened. Unfortunately, you me om mos beth ..... don't know what happened. Maybe J or 2k or all of them may know, but we don't know what they know.

There simply won't magically be a conviction for anything. It's a fantasy. ALE doesn't want to go forward because they don't want it exposed they locked up j2k for basically nothing.

[FloridaDoug]

Even if he would get credit for time served, Wouldn't he have a conviction on his record if the judge(s) ruled against him? Is body disposal a felony or misdemeanor in Holland?

I believe it is a misdemeanor with a maximum of 6 months

Regardless, it takes evidence to convict, and in my opinion the ALE did not have the evidence necessary for a conviction